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Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

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Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#181

Post by wolverine876 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #45

Are you me? I'm 28, and genuinely feel angry about the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit that was shoved down our throat as teenagers and young adults. It's not a recipe for anything except burnout and depression. Staking your ego on being the "guy who knows a lot about technology/concept x" is even worse. Stick with your job, and make sure to keep time for your wife (or husband) and…

> It's not a recipe for anything except burnout and depression. Staking your ego on being the "guy who knows a lot about technology/concept x" is even worse.

> the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit that was shoved down our throat as teenagers and young adults.

My experience is that I'm not doing something I love (to some degree), that's what leads to burnout and depression. I know from some experience.

And if I'm not also taking risks, I also become depressed and burnt out; I feel stagnated. Taking risks and failing is just much harder than it seems in the romantic stories, and certainly I need to moderate it to meet my tolerance for risk and failure, and I work hard to grow that tolerance and resiliance so that I can do more. Certainly you shouldn't stake your ego on its success - IME a sure way to make it unbearable - but in the effort, in doing the best you can, and in your growth. Risk is scary and failure hurts, but they are living, and I would miss a big part of the experience if I avoided them. There's no other way to grow, to learn about myself: what I love, what I don't, what I do well and don't; what suits me and doesn't. Also essential to the learning is not blaming others for my choices and their consequences - that is depression and, in a sense, burnout.

We need to each find what suits us. I'll just say that ironically, the parent is a bitter and burnt-out comment. Is the path of avoiding risk actually safe from that? IME, there is no easy path through.

> make sure to keep time for your wife (or husband) and kids

Agreed! Hopefully, that is a primary passion for anyone.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#182

Post by wolverine876 »

burntoutfire wrote: post #133
AussieWog93 wrote: post #45

Are you me? I'm 28, and genuinely feel angry about the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit that was shoved down our throat as teenagers and young adults. It's not a recipe for anything except burnout and depression. Staking your ego on being the "guy who knows a lot about technology/concept x" is even worse. Stick with your job, and make sure to keep time for your wife (or husband) and…

That's an interesting take. You're probably right, if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed. Hardly anyone can be that special snowflake and create a successful startup, video game etc. And yet modern American culture is saying that you should go out and try doing it anyway. Guess what happens if you do...

> if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed

How does encouraging people to find passions and live them communicate that they are beneath some median path? It tells them they are valuable, and that their passion is important.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#183

Post by wolverine876 »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #152
burntoutfire wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting take. You're probably right, if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed. Hardly anyone can be that special snowflake and create a successful startup, video game etc. And yet modern American culture is saying that you should go out and try doing it anyway. Guess what happens if you do...

>That's an interesting take. I get where you're coming from, but I think the fact that this take is at all interested says more about our culture than anything else. I'm not an anthropologist, but I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country".

> I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country".

Most free, advanced countries say more. A common theory is that it's a matter of safety - look up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Much of the world for most of history felt very insecure, with food and survival at risk, and couldn't fulfill their 'higher' needs. And that might explain why, in these insecure times, we see (IME) many preaching the more basic needs and against the higher ones.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#184

Post by wolverine876 »

What I found is that I was worn out, as perhaps you seem to be, but that in becoming 'boring' I was losing my edge, my creativity and sharpness, as I lived a life that was not my passion. I refused to believe it was an unavoidable result of aging, something many of my peers used to rationalize it, but that doesn't mean it's easy. Here's what has worked for me:

Most of all, I realized that I have a certain emotional capacity, including for stress, risk, failure, etc. - just like I have a physical capacity to how much I can carry, how fast I can run, etc. I need to work within that capacity, but still challenging myself, being careful not to use it as a limit or excuse. But at the same time, it's essential to life - to living it, to experiencing it - and I've worked seriously and very hard to grow it and strengthen it. (I think my peers have burnt out for precisely this reason - running out of capacity, most not even being conscious of it.) That has been transformational. There is nothing more important than understanding humanity an yourself on that level, IME. Probably the most fundamental suggestion I have is to love yourself (in a healthy way, and not to the exclusion of others); provide emotional support to yourself, because you are the one friend that is always there and has by far the most to give. Grow that inside you and you can love others much more, do much more, and experience the world much more and more intensely, before you reach your limits.

Second, I assumed (for my purposes) that there was no biological difference between myself and younger people, and then looked for other differences. Most of all, I noticed that younger people explore and try things, even when there seems to be no point. By epxloring - within limited time constraints, and more wisely choosing what directions to go - I've regained my edge and creativity. It wasn't that hard and reset my life.

The problem is what happens after you become boring. We gain a lot from exploration, risk, failure, learning, etc. without even realizing it, and those skills and benefits ebb away. You don't need to live a wild life to do it, but keep growing in a serious way. Many I know are aging but stopped growing and the difference is heart-breaking.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#185

Post by marto1 »

rramadass wrote: post #138

A lot of the "Entrepreneurial rah-rah, YOLO etc." are complete BS. Only a very very lucky few make it; the vast majority fail and suffer for the rest of their lives. I personally know of a couple of people whose entire lives (and their families) have been ruined because they kept trying to be "Entrepreneurial" and failing repeatedly instead of maintaining a steady job, saving money and taking care of their family. Fo…

I think what you have written is very valuable and has to be taken into consideration. There is, however, a difference between the “scorched earth” entrepreneurship you’re talking about and the more organic type rooted in smaller(often self funded) ventures. It doesn't even have to be a registered business per se, something like a shared veggie garden in your neighborhood can be defined as "making it" for some people.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#186

Post by FWKevents »

This is not an either-or question. Start-ups are a "fast and furious" game, so you can go in and out of them. Successful start-ups only last for 5-10 years before exit, and unsuccessful ones last for even less time. I'm in late middle age. I've decided to found another start-up after a long period of stability while I got married and raised 2 children. During this period of "boringness" I made money so that I don't need a "friends and family" round, since I have the money myself to get the new business off the ground. Additionally, I developed skills that will make me much more likely to be a success at the start-up, since I know better what problems exist in my industry and have some ideas about how to solve them. The period of "boringness" will go quickly, especially if you have children, and will make you a much more effective start-up co-founder later on.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#187

Post by mattgreenrocks »

DrBoring wrote: post #74
getoj wrote: post #25

From Bill Watterson's commencement speech at Kenyon College in 1990. I was lucky to read this when I was graduating and it changed my whole career path. I am now very happy and very boring: "Creating a life that reflects your values and satisfies your soul is a rare achievement. In a culture that relentlessly promotes avarice and excess as the good life, a person happy doing his own work is usually considered an ecce…

This quote reminds me of a book I just finished: "The Pathless Path" by Paul Millerd https://think-boundless.com/the-pathless-path/ It's about rejecting the default career path which our society considers normal and desirable. The default path is the one where you go to school, enter a career, work the career until you retire ... etc. I have been a lot of trouble lately figuring out why I'm so unhappy with my career.…

Thank you for the rec, I started it today!

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#188

Post by jonny_eh »

bckr wrote: post #83
jonny_eh wrote: post #22

Your mentor might think you're boring, but what do your friends and family (and yourself) think? They're the ones that really matter.

> friends My mentor is also a friend. Not sure about my other friends and family. They all seem to love me and just want me to be happy. > yourself I'd like to create some things. Maybe businesses, maybe not. It's pretty great that I made it to where I am, though, especially given my background.

That's awesome. I'm similar. I've taken a crack at the entrepreneur thing, but it's very hard and quite a gamble. In the end I've decided that I just like making cool stuff. For me, working at a company that lets me make cool stuff is working out great. As engineers, we're very lucky to have so many opportunities, good luck!

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#189

Post by wolverine876 »

xeromal wrote: post #68
ARandomerDude wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm doubly wary of unsuccessful people telling me it's (nearly) impossible to be successful. Can't never could.

You need to look at it statistically though. Many more have failed than succeeded and while not exactly the same, your argument could be used for someone wanting to be a FIFA or NFL athlete. Sure, some succeed, but many don't. Same with the million-dollar business idea.

Everyone failed at some point, yet most succeed.

Re: Ask HN: Thoughts on being “boring”

#190

Post by wolverine876 »

leros wrote: post #5

Be wary of advice from a successful entrepreneur. They've gambled and won. Unless you want to be an entrepreneur and you're also ok with the idea of failing and never becoming rich from it, their advice might not apply to you and your life.

> Unless you want to be an entrepreneur and you're also ok with the idea of failing and never becoming rich from it

   failing != never succeeding
In fact, I would say it's much closer to,

   failing => succeeding
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