https://i.imgur.com/qz4EeQS.jpg - This is (was?) their ads "15% interest. No surprises."
Technically "15% interest. No surprises." is correct
No surprises in it being complete bullshit?
YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
101–110 of 300 posts
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
There were funds that did due diligence and built out models of the Luna/Terra/Anchor ecosystem and realized it was unstable. You can talk to the people who built their models and they have lots of fun things to say about the ordeal.
That raises an interesting ethical problem, really; should there be a duty to report this sort of thing, or is "scheme X is fundamentally flawed/a scam and investors will lose everything" legitimate proprietary information? As I understand it, various analysts were pretty sure at the time that Madoff's scheme was a Ponzi, but in general they didn't tell anyone (in fairness, one attempted to and had trouble getting li…
There were many people that reported on the flawed stability mechanism of Terra/Luna/UST. But still, there were many other people that placed their trust in it and cheered the price appreciation.
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
I publicly called out LUNA/UST on Twitter a few times a few months before the collapse [0] [1]. Just stating this so it's clear that I don't have any interest defending them. That being said, calling these platforms "ponzis" isn't correct, the most you can say is that they were front ends for a ponzi. It would be like setting up a front-end to receive investments, and then depositing the money with Madoff. I'm not sa…
> It would be like setting up a front-end to receive investments, and then depositing the money with Madoff. I'm not saying it's a legitimate business, just not a ponzi. So, it’s neither legitimate nor a Ponzi. Cool, what is it then?
it's fraud
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
There were funds that did due diligence and built out models of the Luna/Terra/Anchor ecosystem and realized it was unstable. You can talk to the people who built their models and they have lots of fun things to say about the ordeal.
That raises an interesting ethical problem, really; should there be a duty to report this sort of thing, or is "scheme X is fundamentally flawed/a scam and investors will lose everything" legitimate proprietary information? As I understand it, various analysts were pretty sure at the time that Madoff's scheme was a Ponzi, but in general they didn't tell anyone (in fairness, one attempted to and had trouble getting li…
for context for others following along, Galois Capital went public with their criticism months before they started shorting. most people didn't listen.
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#105They’re just one of several shiny fintech apps/websites running the same scam, a modern two-and-twenty on a ponzi — but with really nice UI. Alice (alice.co / @alice_finance) is another prominent one that may have lost customer funds, which was also using the Anchor protocol. It’s unclear how much they lost, but it’s interesting that Do Kwon’s name is still an actual logo listed on their home page. And Vertex Protoco…
I publicly called out LUNA/UST on Twitter a few times a few months before the collapse [0] [1]. Just stating this so it's clear that I don't have any interest defending them. That being said, calling these platforms "ponzis" isn't correct, the most you can say is that they were front ends for a ponzi. It would be like setting up a front-end to receive investments, and then depositing the money with Madoff. I'm not sa…
> I'm not saying it's a legitimate business
Umm, once it's not a legitimate business, it's fraudulent. Exactly what type of fraudulent is a somewhat secondary issue.
[of Boiler Room scams of old] "... often rely on high-pressure sales tactics, such as aggressive cold-calling, misinformation, and extravagant promises to assure buyers that they are buying "a sure thing." [..] The SEC requires brokers to adhere to strict standards when selling securities. Brokers may not misinform or omit material facts when selling securities; nor can they exaggerate their own track records. They are also required to have a “reasonable basis to believe that a recommended transaction or investment strategy is suitable for a customer.”"[0]
Ring any bells?
Do we think customers are really giving informed consent before putting their savings into these platforms?
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#106I imagine (and hope) those 5k where mostly crypto bros who knew what they were getting into. Who else expects 15% returns from a "safe" investment?
As a recovering crypto bro, none of my other friends have been impacted by this entire UST/Luna meltdown at all Why? Because crypto bros are too degen to be okay with 15% yield lol
right, crypto nerds are swinging for multiple x, if not 100x or 1000x
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#107I'm gobsmacked at the amount of money people have entrusted to experimental beta software whose behavior at scale is unknown. It's fascinating to watch these systems spin out of control in a new kind of flash crash
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
I publicly called out LUNA/UST on Twitter a few times a few months before the collapse [0] [1]. Just stating this so it's clear that I don't have any interest defending them. That being said, calling these platforms "ponzis" isn't correct, the most you can say is that they were front ends for a ponzi. It would be like setting up a front-end to receive investments, and then depositing the money with Madoff. I'm not sa…
> I'm not saying it's a legitimate business Umm, once it's not a legitimate business, it's fraudulent. Exactly what type of fraudulent is a somewhat secondary issue. [of Boiler Room scams of old] "... often rely on high-pressure sales tactics, such as aggressive cold-calling, misinformation, and extravagant promises to assure buyers that they are buying "a sure thing." [..] The SEC requires brokers to adhere to stric…
josu didn’t say it wasn’t fraudulent, just that it wasn’t a Ponzi scheme, which is a particular type of fraud. (I agree)
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
There were funds that did due diligence and built out models of the Luna/Terra/Anchor ecosystem and realized it was unstable. You can talk to the people who built their models and they have lots of fun things to say about the ordeal.
That raises an interesting ethical problem, really; should there be a duty to report this sort of thing, or is "scheme X is fundamentally flawed/a scam and investors will lose everything" legitimate proprietary information? As I understand it, various analysts were pretty sure at the time that Madoff's scheme was a Ponzi, but in general they didn't tell anyone (in fairness, one attempted to and had trouble getting li…
The SEC will pay you money if you report fraud, the problem is that it's not clear how illegal these schemes are, and for the ones that are illegal, whether or not the SEC will be able to build, and win a case.
Bitfinex, for example is being prosecuted. The SEC have cases against a few of the mid-level people, but the founder is hiding out somewhere in Asia, and will never see the inside of a US courtroom.
Also, it's very easy to con someone, but it's almost impossible to convince someone who has been conned that they've been cheated. If you do your due diligence, and disclose your findings, the marks will ignore you, the con artists will smear you in the press, start lawsuits against you, and everyone uninvolved will shrug their shoulders and 'both sides' your feud.
Re: YC W22 Stablegains is being sued for losing $42M in funds from 4878 customers
#110"Stablegains makes earning with DeFi simple and safe for consumers and businesses alike."
Anything that has DeFi yield farming on it with X% of returns per year is a textbook scam. It is neither 'stable' nor did anyone gain anything other than a loss.
It is another way for retail to hodl their bags for this lie called 'passive income' all into a loss while the VCs dump and exit scam with the founders.