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Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

addyosmani.com

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Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#41

Post by rizzaxc »

angarg12 wrote: post #32
gmiller123456 wrote: post #20

Is there any evidence that Google is actually better at software engineering than other companies? IMHO, it seems they have enough money to deliberately do things inefficiently which would kill a smaller company, but Google can manage to succeed through brute force. Honestly I think the better example would be from a tiny company that can't afford to do things wrong.

If building, running and evolving very large and complex systems over many years is not a measure of software engineering quality, I don't know how else to compare companies.

Google has not pushed anything relevant to the user space for many, many years. It's not without reason people meme about Google Graveyard. Here in Hackernews, people constantly whine about their ads, their irrelevant google search, and what have you. Their latest "flagship" phone is littered with bugs.

I wouldn't call them "evolving" anything software as of late. Their hard science departments seem good though, but these aren't software engineering

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#42

Post by addy_osmani »

imwillofficial wrote: post #36
postalrat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you only take advice from people who never make mistakes?

Usually don’t take their advice if they are literally making a mistake while delivering it.

Hah. In truth, I deserve that feedback.

I’ve been slacking on adding proper CI/CD to my blog, while my apps on Netlify/Vercel don’t have this issue. I’ll take this as the proper kick in the pants to work on that.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#44

Post by Animats »

Supermancho wrote: post #8

Has someone collected all these self-aggrandizing posts that spew from ex-Googlers and current Googlers? It feels like a pre-requisite for their promotion packets. These all sound about the same and are altogether unhelpful. Note the copious links to terms and inlined quotes rather than an actual study, or any evidence at all...just vague rewording of colloquial expressions commonly traded around. The only use seems…

It's not that what he says is bad. It's that it reads like it was censored by Google's PR department, or self-censored to avoid trouble. There's nothing on "what to do when your project is cancelled", or "what to do when what you're doing is becoming incompatible with what someone else on the project is doing", or "when is there too much technical debt to continue". Those are things one might learn in a decade at Google, but can't talk about in public.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#45

Post by erung88 »

passivate wrote: post #26
gmiller123456 wrote: post #20

Is there any evidence that Google is actually better at software engineering than other companies? IMHO, it seems they have enough money to deliberately do things inefficiently which would kill a smaller company, but Google can manage to succeed through brute force. Honestly I think the better example would be from a tiny company that can't afford to do things wrong.

I don't mind admitting Google employs people far smarter than I will ever be, but they're creating and maintaining the largest global spying apparatus in history. Maybe we should be learning from people who're actually making the world a better place.

They make you feel like they're smart but everything is relative. Google cloud is constantly the thrid in the market and significantly leg behind AWS in terms of market share while its CEO was replaced every 2 years so there are definitely smarter people (e.g. AWS engineers) out there.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#46

Post by somenameforme »

angarg12 wrote: post #32
gmiller123456 wrote: post #20

Is there any evidence that Google is actually better at software engineering than other companies? IMHO, it seems they have enough money to deliberately do things inefficiently which would kill a smaller company, but Google can manage to succeed through brute force. Honestly I think the better example would be from a tiny company that can't afford to do things wrong.

If building, running and evolving very large and complex systems over many years is not a measure of software engineering quality, I don't know how else to compare companies.

Their flagship product is Google search. But compared to 10-15 years ago, the results are hyper-monetized, full of spam, and frequently just not especially great.

I understand there are many reasons for this (though some of those originate with Google itself), but that's rather the point. The whole reason Google became a thing is because most search engines 20 years ago were full of results that were "hyper-monetized, full of spam, and frequently just not especially great." Then Google came and offered a product that effectively solved this, and quickly became a giant because of it.

Maintaining, let alone evolving, means continuing to work at least as well in the face of changing conditions.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#47

Post by joshuamorton »

Animats wrote: post #44
Supermancho wrote: post #8

Has someone collected all these self-aggrandizing posts that spew from ex-Googlers and current Googlers? It feels like a pre-requisite for their promotion packets. These all sound about the same and are altogether unhelpful. Note the copious links to terms and inlined quotes rather than an actual study, or any evidence at all...just vague rewording of colloquial expressions commonly traded around. The only use seems…

It's not that what he says is bad. It's that it reads like it was censored by Google's PR department, or self-censored to avoid trouble. There's nothing on "what to do when your project is cancelled", or "what to do when what you're doing is becoming incompatible with what someone else on the project is doing", or "when is there too much technical debt to continue". Those are things one might learn in a decade at Goo…

I mean, you might learn these, but also you might not. Some people just have generally good experiences (and in fact you'd sort of expect someone who has stayed at the company for a decade to be in that bucket).

Signed, another googler who couldn't answer any of those questions despite half a decade.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#48

Post by lrem »

rizzaxc wrote: post #41
angarg12 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If building, running and evolving very large and complex systems over many years is not a measure of software engineering quality, I don't know how else to compare companies.

Google has not pushed anything relevant to the user space for many, many years. It's not without reason people meme about Google Graveyard. Here in Hackernews, people constantly whine about their ads, their irrelevant google search, and what have you. Their latest "flagship" phone is littered with bugs. I wouldn't call them "evolving" anything software as of late. Their hard science departments seem good though, but…

Is product definition a part of software engineering?

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#49

Post by rossjudson »

gmiller123456 wrote: post #22
addy_osmani wrote: post #14

Hey folks. Author of this post here. I sincerely apologize, this was accidentally published live prematurely (my fault). It’s got a number of style and structure issues I’ve been working through locally (you are spot on regarding the heading feedback). I have taken it down and will be publishing it in the future once it is actually complete.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'd prefer not to take advice from someone sufficiently enamored with their own capabilities that they assume it's not possible to make a mistake.
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