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Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

addyosmani.com

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Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#31

Post by dlp211 »

gmiller123456 wrote: post #20

Is there any evidence that Google is actually better at software engineering than other companies? IMHO, it seems they have enough money to deliberately do things inefficiently which would kill a smaller company, but Google can manage to succeed through brute force. Honestly I think the better example would be from a tiny company that can't afford to do things wrong.

I have only worked at a few companies, and I won't comment about the quality of engineering done at Google, but Google's Engineering Systems are the best I have ever used. From Code Search to Critique to Cider (Online IDE) to Blaze (Build) to having the entire code base "mounted" on my dev machine and the integration with golinks, it was an absolute pleasure to work with.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#32

Post by angarg12 »

gmiller123456 wrote: post #20

Is there any evidence that Google is actually better at software engineering than other companies? IMHO, it seems they have enough money to deliberately do things inefficiently which would kill a smaller company, but Google can manage to succeed through brute force. Honestly I think the better example would be from a tiny company that can't afford to do things wrong.

If building, running and evolving very large and complex systems over many years is not a measure of software engineering quality, I don't know how else to compare companies.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#33

Post by heydemo »

gmiller123456 wrote: post #22
addy_osmani wrote: post #14

Hey folks. Author of this post here. I sincerely apologize, this was accidentally published live prematurely (my fault). It’s got a number of style and structure issues I’ve been working through locally (you are spot on regarding the heading feedback). I have taken it down and will be publishing it in the future once it is actually complete.

Quoted post unavailable.

Prefacing a statement with "not to be snide" does not magically make it not snide.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#34

Post by sgammon »

i wish what you would write about is why MDL became MDC became Lit / MWC, and while it's still a complete mess.

the last time Material worked flawlessly with Bazel outside Google was arguably MDL, if you could even count that as working.

i just don't understand why Google isn't investing in OSS the way it used to. why it cannot seem to do the thing that should be easiest: to make its own software work with itself. it seemingly cannot do this even in high-value categories it cares deeply about, like Cloud.

i loved MDL. thank you for writing it. but i wish you would write something that cuts to why it is 2022 and Google just announced Flutter integration with Firebase like we all don't know that absolutely should have been a basic staple feature from the get go.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#35

Post by sgammon »

sgammon wrote: post #34

i wish what you would write about is why MDL became MDC became Lit / MWC, and while it's still a complete mess. the last time Material worked flawlessly with Bazel outside Google was arguably MDL, if you could even count that as working. i just don't understand why Google isn't investing in OSS the way it used to. why it cannot seem to do the thing that should be easiest: to make its own software work with itself. it…

pardon me, and *why it's still a complete mess. because it undeniably is

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#36

Post by imwillofficial »

postalrat wrote: post #24
gmiller123456 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Do you only take advice from people who never make mistakes?

Usually don’t take their advice if they are literally making a mistake while delivering it.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#37

Post by imwillofficial »

gravypod wrote: post #2

(Opinions are my own) My favorites from the list, that I did not see other companies (specifically startups) do at all: > A single large release may be divided into a series of lower-risk well-understood rollouts. > Design documentation should not be an afterthought but an integral part of the software engineering process. > Coordinate reviews for the design doc and compare the design as it evolves with the original…

Also, grass is green, sky is blue.

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#39

Post by reactjavascript »

passivate wrote: post #26
gmiller123456 wrote: post #20

Is there any evidence that Google is actually better at software engineering than other companies? IMHO, it seems they have enough money to deliberately do things inefficiently which would kill a smaller company, but Google can manage to succeed through brute force. Honestly I think the better example would be from a tiny company that can't afford to do things wrong.

I don't mind admitting Google employs people far smarter than I will ever be, but they're creating and maintaining the largest global spying apparatus in history. Maybe we should be learning from people who're actually making the world a better place.

Teachers, nurses, and janitors

Re: Software Engineering Insights from 10 Years at Google

#40

Post by Hermitian909 »

gmiller123456 wrote: post #20

Is there any evidence that Google is actually better at software engineering than other companies? IMHO, it seems they have enough money to deliberately do things inefficiently which would kill a smaller company, but Google can manage to succeed through brute force. Honestly I think the better example would be from a tiny company that can't afford to do things wrong.

Depends what you mean by "better at software engineering".

What Google seems to do really well is building robust systems at a scale that pushes the limits of what humanity is capable of. If you collect anecdotes from engineers who've worked on scaling systems at the small number of companies at this scale, there seems to be general agreement that Google is "the best". My understanding from these anecdotes is that Google core services are "on fire" less than everywhere else and require less maintenance.

But that's a pretty narrow definition of software engineering. AWS, by all accounts, is much better at productizing something useful to the world. I've heard that the reason Microsoft lags Google in stability could plausibly be accounted for by the fact that they care so much more about maintaining backwards compatibility (which Google very clearly does not care about).

All that said, I don't think its "best at software engineering" is a terribly useful category, better to say they are plausibly "best at a very specific and very difficult kind of software engineering".

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