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Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

foodandwine.com

211–220 of 317 posts

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#211
post #135
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of great American cheddars that are as good as anything I've had from the UK.

I don't believe it's not doable, but all I've seen of North American supermarkets is 'cheddar-style' processed cheese and similar abominations; is food-buying just different, does anyone wanting half-decent cheese go to a cheesemonger or farmers' market or something?

http://www.ourdailycheese.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/img...

https://i.imgur.com/WWOuGGW.jpg

https://www.theneighborhoodmoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/...

https://s3.amazonaws.com/spoonuniversi-wpengine/spoonunivers...

https://www.mcall.com/resizer/TMbbZ3l7Ik9C7bvyY7rc6Kce43c=/1...

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-RZ602_NYCHEE_P_...

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#214

I found technical details about the device: https://www.isenet.it/product/pharmaseq-products/ It's tiny (500 microns), passive, photocell-powered (you point a laser at it), and encapsulated in an inert SiO2 coating.

So, what percentage of these crack open during processing, and how poisonous are they without the sio2 casing? What about when they hit the sewer processing plant, and are eventually dumped.

Also, what sort of environmental impact does producing them have?

Hopefully they'll be forced to label products that have these things in them. Otherwise, I'll be switching to fake Parmesan.

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#215
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cut with fillers like wood pulp Label fraud aside, I really don't understand the vitriol that gets directed against grated cheese being sold with cellulose. It's only there to make the cheese shake out better (which it does well, you can buy grated cheese without cellulose to compare it to) And besides, there's nothing wrong with cellulose in the first place. You eat loads of cellulose every time you eat lettuce. S…

If it’s no big deal why don’t they put “wood pulp” on the packaging? The fact it saves them money is too convenient by half and if they want to sell it they should be forced to disclose how they’re making it shake easier.

When they're following the law, which is most of the time, they put "cellulose" in the ingredients list on the package. This sort of product is usually not mislabeled. In that case it wasn't, and the company was rightly busted for it.

It isn't called "wood pulp" in the ingredient list because it isn't wood pulp, it's cellulose powder derived from wood pulp (or cotton.) Listing cellulose as "wood pulp" would be like listing gelatin as "pig".

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#216
post #211
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it's not doable, but all I've seen of North American supermarkets is 'cheddar-style' processed cheese and similar abominations; is food-buying just different, does anyone wanting half-decent cheese go to a cheesemonger or farmers' market or something?

http://www.ourdailycheese.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/img... https://i.imgur.com/WWOuGGW.jpg https://www.theneighborhoodmoms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/... https://s3.amazonaws.com/spoonuniversi-wpengine/spoonunivers... https://www.mcall.com/resizer/TMbbZ3l7Ik9C7bvyY7rc6Kce43c=/1... https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-RZ602_NYCHEE_P_...

That's more like it! Just wasn't my (very limited) experience. Thanks.

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#217
post #183
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe it's not doable, but all I've seen of North American supermarkets is 'cheddar-style' processed cheese and similar abominations; is food-buying just different, does anyone wanting half-decent cheese go to a cheesemonger or farmers' market or something?

Every American supermarket sells blocks of perfectly good, normal cheese. You can get Vermont cheddar all over the northeast, at the very least. Where you might be disappointed is if you like "extra mature" British cheddar, which is not really equivalent to "extra sharp" American cheddar. Personally I find both unappealing.

> Where you might be disappointed is if you like "extra mature" British cheddar,

For cheddar specifically, yes, I'd hesitate to buy anything younger, and if I had to I'd only use it in cooking.

Maybe that partly explains my experience/surprise, but a sibling comment shows photos which though not close-up seem much more like what I 'expected', or rather was surprised to notice an apparent lack of.

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#218
post #214

I found technical details about the device: https://www.isenet.it/product/pharmaseq-products/ It's tiny (500 microns), passive, photocell-powered (you point a laser at it), and encapsulated in an inert SiO2 coating.

So, what percentage of these crack open during processing, and how poisonous are they without the sio2 casing? What about when they hit the sewer processing plant, and are eventually dumped. Also, what sort of environmental impact does producing them have? Hopefully they'll be forced to label products that have these things in them. Otherwise, I'll be switching to fake Parmesan.

What makes you think any chip would be harmful to ingest? You could happily eat most chips, if they were small enough, without any negative effects.

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#219
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I don't think so. From the article I think there is a trade association that views fraud as a problem and thinks that that a verifiable provenance would help. I don't see an implication that the trade association or its members are particularly concerned about internal diversion or substitution of the product. It seems plausible that they think enabling consumers or merchants to verify cheese authenticity will re…

But what does distributing it get them? They don't need to resist sibyl attacks, and they explicitly don't want to let just anyone... Mine cheesecoin, so to speak. Just create a central CA, have it sign each authorized cheese maker's certificate, and have customers verify signatures. Or do lookups against a central database.

Distributing it gives freedom of choice. No need to nominate a blessed CA that everyone has to use.

It's fine for anyone to mine cheesecoin. Probably better for this specific trade group in fact, if nonmembers decide to use this same blockchain for their cheese as well! Customers can still check if they are buying DOP specifically vs. 150mi-local worker coop biodynamic or whatever. The more widely used this system is, the more wholesalers, merchants, and consumers will learn of it and use it, and the harder it will be for fraudsters to pass off their goods as the Genuine Article.

Who's going to run the CA? Who's going to pay for it? Can you get all the customers to add the CA's public key to their trusted list? Will all the producers and merchants agree as well? The producers are the easy part, they are the ones coming up with this plan. Everyone else in the cheese economy: that could be harder. It's not just verifying the "this cheese was made by X" claim, also at every step of distribution you have to update the log "this cheese was sold to Y" and get that signed too, so all the distributors and merchants need to get certificates and learn how to apply the secret keys to cheeselogs. Using a blockchain also requires some crypto-effort, but it requires participants to agree on fewer things, gives the participants more freedom of choice. I could imagine someone proposing the centralized version you suggest, but apparently this particular group think it is better to do it in decentralized fashion and I can definitely see some advantages to that.

Re: Parmigiano Reggiano makers embedding tiny trackers in rind to fight cheese fraud

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how debt peons are made, historically. Kinda sad to see the same patterns in the modern world.

Isn’t this the classic use case for debt? Upfront funding to fund an investment?

Hmmm... It's a two party system right? Borrow and lend. Your example is the borrower's half. The lender [supposedly] assumes risk, and presumes the money could be invested in other profitable ventures (opportunity cost), therefore they charge the borrower interest - I think the paradigm goes something like that... Viola double coincidence of needs, deal accepted.

If the farmer has a shit year, the lender has a variety of options for recourse. Including dispossessing the farmer of land. Historically there were other options like selling one's family. You could castrate yourself and hope to God you'll be accepted into court. Debtor's prison I imagine is also a probable consequence. This is doubly offensive when we consider interest, which can often result in multiples of the initial investment, and that many large scale first world lenders have developed world and the IMF backing them basically indicating they're not allowed default.

Hard to say with the information provided, but it seems typical of the trend.

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