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New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

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Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#21

Post by whydid »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #10

Wonder how this works with the FHA underwriting requirement that mortgages in multifamily properties can only be written if 25% or less of the units are rentals. Having a revolving door of short term guests in a building upsets some long term residents but causing them to be unable to sell their property to anyone using an FHA loan is economically damaging.

As someone who's shopped for apartments in NYC for years, I can tell you that yes, many buildings are unfinanceable if > N% of units are rentals. However, many/most loans in NYC aren't traditional loans because they're greater than the FHA limits ($600k I think?)

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#22

Post by dorchadas »

ostenning wrote: post #11

Some European cities that have a high occupancy percentage, like Berlin, have strict laws around temporary rentals with platforms like AirBnb. Rightly so, the city should have its longterm inhabitants occupying what little apartments exist as a priority over investment properties and tourists. Additionally Airbnbs inject tourism money into the area but can have a detrimental effect on community cohesion as a whole

The effects have been entirely detrimental in Dublin. The (vast) majority of the jobs in the country are in the capital, yet there's nowhere near enough living space. And a good portion of it is because of AirBnB. During the pandemic, when the tourist market shut down, the number of long-term lets doubled. And statistical evidence shows most of these were AirBnBs going back onto the long-term market.

Not to mention the negative externality of living next to what is basically an unlicensed hotel reserved for tourists. Coming in all hours of the night, loud and rowdy and not a care in the world about the people who have to actually live in an area. AirBnB has done more harm than good, all because tourists feel they should be entitled to live like a local, which completely disregards any planning and zoning done by cities, which count for tourists in hotels/hostels, not in actual residences meant for locals. And thus the locals get driven out and the city basically becomes full of tourists.

Galway is just as bad too. If AirBnB were shut down tomorrow, it would be 100 times better (it still wouldn't be great as the government hasn't done anything to really help matters, but AirBnB is a major issue).

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#23

Post by gruez »

HWR_14 wrote: post #9
gruez wrote: post #6

The title is trying to imply that airbnbs outnumber apartments, but directly comparing airbnb listings with apartment listings doesn't really make sense. There's basically a one to one relationship between an airbnb listing and an apartment that's used for airbnb. On the other hand for every apartment listing there might be tens/hundreds of apartments being used as apartments (because an apartment that's occupied ten…

10% is a shockingly high number. In a city where 1.25% of people slept in a homeless shelter last year (not counting the tens of thousands on the street), having 8 times that as a percentage of rental stock to tourists seems insane.

10% is just a random number I came up with and isn’t supposed to be taken as some sort of estimate.

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#24

Post by e-clinton »

ipaddr wrote: post #17
HWR_14 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10% is a shockingly high number. In a city where 1.25% of people slept in a homeless shelter last year (not counting the tens of thousands on the street), having 8 times that as a percentage of rental stock to tourists seems insane.

The lack of rental properties is not preventing the 1.25% from being housed. The cost /lack of money / mental health issues / drugs / etc are the primary reasons. Giving back 1% stock would not see the rate fall to .25%

It’s not always as dramatic as you think. Lots of homeless folks in NYC are regular working people who simply can’t afford rent. I have a close friend whose spent 2 years in a shelter with his wife and daughter before digging himself out.

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#25

Post by paulryanrogers »

rdtwo wrote: post #14
paulryanrogers wrote: post #3

Perhaps they should limit to one Airbnb per person, no corporate ownership, and no more than 6 months of the year.

Why would air bnb do that. They don’t even care about you as the customer, they are really just trying to please landlords and don’t care about the user/renter. Kind of how dating sites only care about attracting women and Know that men will do where the women are

I was proposing NYC regulations, not trusting a mega-corp to self regulate. But with a few million in lobbyists maybe it works out the same.

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#26

Post by HWR_14 »

ipaddr wrote: post #17
HWR_14 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10% is a shockingly high number. In a city where 1.25% of people slept in a homeless shelter last year (not counting the tens of thousands on the street), having 8 times that as a percentage of rental stock to tourists seems insane.

The lack of rental properties is not preventing the 1.25% from being housed. The cost /lack of money / mental health issues / drugs / etc are the primary reasons. Giving back 1% stock would not see the rate fall to .25%

People on drugs or with severe mental health issues are probably unable to be in the population admitted to a shelter and is in the street. Certainly, since the average shelter stay is over a year and 4 months, any concerns about them being bad tenants would assume they behave significantly differently in an apartment than in a shelter that will kick them out.

Yes it's a cost/lack of money question. If only economics told us what we'd expect to see happen if the supply of a resource priced out of peoples budget (long term housing) was increased.

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#27

Post by ipaddr »

e-clinton wrote: post #24
ipaddr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of rental properties is not preventing the 1.25% from being housed. The cost /lack of money / mental health issues / drugs / etc are the primary reasons. Giving back 1% stock would not see the rate fall to .25%

It’s not always as dramatic as you think. Lots of homeless folks in NYC are regular working people who simply can’t afford rent. I have a close friend whose spent 2 years in a shelter with his wife and daughter before digging himself out.

Adding those properties back into the rental market is not going to lower the rent for those in borderline situations and shelters. Properties that get rented are in average to excellent condition/areas which will increase the supply for luxury property.

Your friend needs the government to build low income housing geared to a percentage of income or price controlled.

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#28

Post by hitovst »

autoexec wrote: post #18
hitovst wrote: post #4

Part of the problem would be long term tenants are facing is of their own collective making. Well, that and regulations. That being the difference in experience when dealing with short term Airbnb tenants who are often on vacation, and long term tenants. The attitude is completely different. Unfortunately, long term tenants are too often adversarial. They feel entitled, and are apt to pursue litigation against you. T…

"Damn tenants, paying rent and then acting all "entitled" to having a home and not buying gifts or thank you cards for their landlords!" Really? Some tenants really are just terrible, and I can sympathize with landlords stuck with the messes they cause, but I'd guess that far more often good tenants are being overcharged for rent that goes up every year in amounts far exceeding any increase to their income, are screw…

Would you rather more revenue, and deal with happy, and appreciative, tenants, or less revenue, more liability, and adversarial tenants?

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#29

Post by autoexec »

hitovst wrote: post #28
autoexec wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Damn tenants, paying rent and then acting all "entitled" to having a home and not buying gifts or thank you cards for their landlords!" Really? Some tenants really are just terrible, and I can sympathize with landlords stuck with the messes they cause, but I'd guess that far more often good tenants are being overcharged for rent that goes up every year in amounts far exceeding any increase to their income, are screw…

Would you rather more revenue, and deal with happy, and appreciative, tenants, or less revenue, more liability, and adversarial tenants?

I agree, the core of the issue that real estate investors are incentivized to act this way. Whatever makes them more money is going to win every time, which is why when the things that make them the most money are pushing costs and problems onto the public (and the housing market in general) we need regulations put in place to restore order.

I imagine a lot of the problems could be improved with zoning changes limiting the amount of properties that can be rented out for short terms, and by shoring up tenants rights to cover gaps in protections for renters.

Re: New York Now Has More Airbnb Listings Than Apartments for Rent

#30

Post by hitovst »

autoexec wrote: post #29
hitovst wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather more revenue, and deal with happy, and appreciative, tenants, or less revenue, more liability, and adversarial tenants?

I agree, the core of the issue that real estate investors are incentivized to act this way. Whatever makes them more money is going to win every time, which is why when the things that make them the most money are pushing costs and problems onto the public (and the housing market in general) we need regulations put in place to restore order. I imagine a lot of the problems could be improved with zoning changes limiti…

I'd suggest that regulation is typically the issue, and it is in the case too. Investing in real estate is not for everyone, and not just based on the merit of one as a landlord. Some states are complete nonstarters unless you can pay for influence.

The only legitimate role of the state is to defend the inalienable rights of the individual. They should not be interfering in contracts. This type of meddling overreach is usually the issue, but is always an issue. There are many consequences, both intended, and unintended, and recognized, and unrecognized.

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