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The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

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Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#81

Post by neill »

rco8786 wrote: post #68
neill wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue they are raising is specifically that, $380k standardized salary band, what role is this? That number seems unsustainable.

Why? Because it’s higher than you’re used to seeing? You don’t even know what role that person was applying for. Is your position that 380k is just “too high”, period? That number (or higher) has been the norm at a huge swath of stable and profitable tech companies for a decade+. I am making an assumption that 380 is total comp and not base salary. I don’t believe that Coinbase is paying 380 base salary for any non-e…

I asked what the role was in the comment you are replying to. Do you have data to back up the "huge swath" assertion? Certainly there are a few individual companies that have been able to provide specialized roles a $380k base salary, and companies who have been able to provide that and above on total comp thanks to an amazing run on equity value over the past 10 years. I don't think anyone is arguing that there are situations when this happens, that's not the point. It's irregular, it's naive to think that is the norm.

The OP specified salary- if they're referring to total comp, that'd be an important distinction for them to make in the future. Its anybodies guess what the actual value of equity in a total comp package will be a year from now. As an example, if you took a $380k TC package at Shopify 6 months ago and 40% of that was equity, it's now looking like $280k.

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#82

Post by neill »

htormey wrote: post #73
neill wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely out of the ordinary- Levels.fyi lists a salary of $224,000 for a Staff level SWE at Google

No you are incorrect. That 224k is base at google not including equity. Staff engineers at google get a bonus and the majority of their comp is in equity, just like coin. Source, I have a lot of friends who are former/current staff engineers at a variety of Bay Area companies. I also was a staff engineer at coin. Also if you want to earn something like this in cash go work at Netflix when they start hiring again. The…

It's not incorrect, salary does not include equity. Total comp would be a combination of salary, equity, and bonuses. The OP refers to salary, not total comp. I'm using their information to reply in their thread. Happy to re-asses conversation at total comp (a different conversation) if they are referring to total comp instead of salary.

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#83

Post by lumost »

neill wrote: post #56
htormey wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at coinbase. We have standardized salary bands, this is just the salary at your level (comp plus equity, not sure if bonus is included). They are letting you know this up front to not waste your time. One other thing that’s worth noting is that each year they give you a new equity grant. That grant I believe is priced based on the stock price over a period of 30 days in the first quarter. Handy for limiting yo…

The issue they are raising is specifically that, $380k standardized salary band, what role is this? That number seems unsustainable.

6 figure wages were common for successful professionals in the 90s, why would you believe that inflation, economic growth, and increasing income inequality hasn’t driven comp to roughly 4x that for successful professionals over the last 30 years?

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#84

Post by idealmedtech »

SemanticStrengh wrote: post #30
idealmedtech wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's clear from the pandemic that stock values do not correlate with the economy.

off-topic: Since you made idealmedtech, you should be interested in publicising the effect of ALCAR on glycemia/insulin. Since it nudge the mitochondria to increase the ratio of lipids/fatty acid consumption and reduce the consumption of glucose, it is very positive for the protection of both kinds of diabetes, in a side effect free manner. The number of lives/quality of life that could be saved if this information w…

We're not really in the business of drugs/supplements, so unfortunately I can't comment on the efficacy of ALCAR and other drugs on the treatment of diabetes. If you have any papers on the topic, feel free to email me (linked on my profile) and I would be happy to discuss when there's time!

Also, as much as I wish we had any sort of platform through idealmedtech.com, our traffic is quite low, mostly from investors and people pitching SaaS products

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#85

Post by BoxOfRain »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #26
JCM9 wrote: post #5

There’s a whole generation of tech employees that have never seen a down market. All indications are that these folks are woefully unaware of what’s on the horizon now. It’s going to be all about cash flow. If you’re burning cash and not making much of it from operations then it’s going to be a bumpy road ahead. Buckle up.

>There’s a whole generation of tech employees that have never seen a down market. Indeed. I lived through both the 2008 financial crisis and the 2000 dot com implosion (also graduated high school and went off to college right during the 1991 recession). People who entered the job market after 2015 and know nothing except recruiters constantly hitting them up with mid six figure+ job offers are in for a rude awakening…

What advice would you give to people who've not been in the tech industry during a recession yet?

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#86

Post by nemo44x »

neill wrote: post #56
htormey wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at coinbase. We have standardized salary bands, this is just the salary at your level (comp plus equity, not sure if bonus is included). They are letting you know this up front to not waste your time. One other thing that’s worth noting is that each year they give you a new equity grant. That grant I believe is priced based on the stock price over a period of 30 days in the first quarter. Handy for limiting yo…

The issue they are raising is specifically that, $380k standardized salary band, what role is this? That number seems unsustainable.

It'a pretty typical for higher level engineer roles and senior director and above manager roles for people in high cost of living markets.

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#87

Post by nemo44x »

BoxOfRain wrote: post #85
DebtDeflation wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There’s a whole generation of tech employees that have never seen a down market. Indeed. I lived through both the 2008 financial crisis and the 2000 dot com implosion (also graduated high school and went off to college right during the 1991 recession). People who entered the job market after 2015 and know nothing except recruiters constantly hitting them up with mid six figure+ job offers are in for a rude awakening…

What advice would you give to people who've not been in the tech industry during a recession yet?

Save money and have enough to live on for awhile. If you don't have savings then immediately cut your cost of living down. If you do lose your job then don't just accept anything (remember, you have savings + unemployment + severance to live on for awhile) and use this time to sharpen skills and learn new things. Make yourself more valuable.

I can't see the future but I don't think it's going to be a bloodbath like the .com crash. Engineers in particular are valuable assets for a company and expensive to recruit. Expect companies to cut back on perks and possibly raises for awhile if it gets bad. But I don't think we're going to see massive layoffs across the board.

There's still a ton of money in the VC world. They just aren't spending right now.

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#88

Post by nemo44x »

kriro wrote: post #66

I think the market is just normalizing. The overall climate was pretty insane. Free money (interest rates), stimulus money etc. I found it pretty fascinating that during a time that was pretty tough overall (global pandemic + supply chain issues) the stock market was basically saying we are in a golden age. That felt "wrong" to me but if I had acted on it, I'd be broke now because the market certainly outperformed my…

It's really about interest rates. The idea was that there's no way the Fed will be raising rates anytime soon so everything went on sale. Yes, an over extension is a lot of things is probably fair. Snowflake is not a 100B company today, for example.

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#89

Post by DebtDeflation »

BoxOfRain wrote: post #85
DebtDeflation wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There’s a whole generation of tech employees that have never seen a down market. Indeed. I lived through both the 2008 financial crisis and the 2000 dot com implosion (also graduated high school and went off to college right during the 1991 recession). People who entered the job market after 2015 and know nothing except recruiters constantly hitting them up with mid six figure+ job offers are in for a rude awakening…

What advice would you give to people who've not been in the tech industry during a recession yet?

1) Save money (get your expenses under control)

2) Keep some of your portfolio liquid

3) Prepare to hunker down at your current job for awhile (lose the job hopping mindset for the time being if you have it)

On the other hand, consider that the time immediately after a recession passes can be a great time to do something new, start a business, etc. as you will be getting in early on the next business cycle.

Re: The tech sector teardown is more catharsis than crisis

#90

Post by htormey »

neill wrote: post #81
rco8786 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because it’s higher than you’re used to seeing? You don’t even know what role that person was applying for. Is your position that 380k is just “too high”, period? That number (or higher) has been the norm at a huge swath of stable and profitable tech companies for a decade+. I am making an assumption that 380 is total comp and not base salary. I don’t believe that Coinbase is paying 380 base salary for any non-e…

I asked what the role was in the comment you are replying to. Do you have data to back up the "huge swath" assertion? Certainly there are a few individual companies that have been able to provide specialized roles a $380k base salary, and companies who have been able to provide that and above on total comp thanks to an amazing run on equity value over the past 10 years. I don't think anyone is arguing that there are…

"I asked what the role was in the comment you are replying to. Do you have data to back up the "huge swath" assertion? Certainly there are a few individual companies that have been able to provide specialized roles a $380k base salary, and companies who have been able to provide that and above on total comp thanks to an amazing run on equity value over the past 10 years. I don't think anyone is arguing that there are situations when this happens, that's not the point. It's irregular, it's naive to think that is the norm."

It's basically what the salary looks like in the USA at a top tier company in a top tier city. Go look at https://www.levels.fyi/ for base salary excluding equity. Equity goes up by level.

As for this role, it sounds basically like a mid career engineers salary. i.e 5-12 years of relevant experience. Hard to know exactly because geography impacts salary bands at Coin.

I can't remember what HR tells us, but I think we are targeting pay for the top 25% of companies/engineers in the USA.

"The OP specified salary- if they're referring to total comp, that'd be an important distinction for them to make in the future."

I work at Coinbase, it's not salary, it's total comp. I'm assuming the OP was a bit confused. At least half that figure is equity.

"Its anybodies guess what the actual value of equity in a total comp package will be a year from now. As an example, if you took a $380k TC package at Shopify 6 months ago and 40% of that was equity, it's now looking like $280k."

As I mentioned earlier, each year Coinbase give you a new equity grant priced at the start of the year. I.e thirty day average, I believe.

So if the equity tanks one year, the next year you will be reset to 380k total comp. Assuming of course we are not in a multi year bear market and you don't get laid off, which is always a possibility in tech.

Also some companies, such as Netflix allow you to take a cash only salary that would be comparable to this.

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