Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#81

Post by fnord123 » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:00 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #73

fnord123 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont have enough karma to reply to my sibling comment: > Sure, but let's compare apples to apples (UK to EU) as US is unique in being the world leading economy. EU has a higher GDP than the US and is therefore the world leading economy.

The EU is not a single united market like the US is. Sure, you can bunch the countries together and get high GDP number but that's not an Apples to apples comparison with the US as every EU country has it's own completely different languages, economy, political and economic agenda, culture, market, legal and tax system, and local issues plus high levels off autonomy from the EU. The EU is not the United States of Eur…

> The EU is not a single united market like the US is.

You made the comparison between US and EU, so it's in play. QED.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#82

Post by bin_bash » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:02 AM UTC

stingraycharles wrote: post #72

bin_bash wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is right. Big Tech is mostly focused on Canada and EU because they can hire people from (chiefly) China and India without H1-Bs. According to a director I spoke with it’s because they can’t find enough qualified engineers, not to save money. Seems we should just be opening more offices in Hyderabad, I don’t know why that isn’t done more. Political security maybe?

Of course, if you offer more money, you’ll get a larger pool of candidates. I agree that there is scarcity on the market, but unless a company is really paying top salaries for their devs, they really cannot say that it’s not money.

I made about 650k last year and I'm not even staff-level. I don't think paying 750k is going to attract anyone new.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#83

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #76

bin_bash wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do homeless issues compare? I know when I was a kid there was a big problem in Vancouver, I imagine it’s only gotten worse.

There are homeless people in both Vancouver and Toronto (and every major city in the world, as far as I know). They are people who ended up in very bad situations, not issues. Most of the time they don’t bother anyone, sometimes they are noisy or pester me for money. It doesn’t bother me.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#84

Post by tdudzik » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:07 AM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #74

tdudzik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So after all they were right and didn't lose ~$300k?

I dunno about that. Most of the team was "very Canadian" and didn't want to move to California - the main reason we rejected the SF deal (I was the only one who accepted in full the acquihire, the team did not move in the end). $300k, staying in Canada, would have gone a long way to providing a stronger team cohesion at the time. Maybe we would have succeeded. Also, we were near completing a $10k/month enterprise dea…

Thanks for the context! It actually seems like something worth taking the risk, too bad it didn't played out better

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#85

Post by smcin » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #27

trinovantes wrote: post #5

Is this an actual HQ or just another remote office?

I was wondering that as well because I remember a long time ago when Bill Gates threatened to move the MS HQ to Canada because of something political that I don't recall anymore.

...back in 2000, during the enormous US DOJ antitrust which seriously threatened to break up MSFT [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....] [https://observer.com/2000/06/the-vancouver-solution-what-if-...]

Calling that "something political that I don't recall anymore" is downplaying it. It was very real. It wasn't partisan either: Sen Orrin Hatch (R-UT) was very pro-Utah companies like Novell and WordPerfect. And there was a 1995 antitrust involving RealNetworks before Microsoft-Netscape; Sen Maria Cantwell (D-WA) was a former VP at RealNetworks.

Some commentators have said MSFT deliberately tactically kept its HQ just south of the Canadian border, for leveraging ongoing negotiations on taxes, IP, visa laws and quotas, etc.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#86

Post by johnebgd » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:14 AM UTC

maccard wrote: post #67

tdrgabi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have the timezone issue, which is a problem

The timezone issue is as much of a problem as you make it. The difference between the east coast and the UK is 5 hours - the difference between East and West coast is 3 hours. Both of those are very roughly in the ballpark of "half a workday overlapping".

That’s a big problem for a 9-5 culture company in the USA.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#87

Post by nikanj » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:19 AM UTC

bin_bash wrote: post #59

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you open an office in Canada because it’s cheaper. Or, to hire international tech workers who you can't bring to your US office for visa reasons.

Yes, this is right. Big Tech is mostly focused on Canada and EU because they can hire people from (chiefly) China and India without H1-Bs. According to a director I spoke with it’s because they can’t find enough qualified engineers, not to save money. Seems we should just be opening more offices in Hyderabad, I don’t know why that isn’t done more. Political security maybe?

The Canadian government does all sorts of background checks on the workers, many of which be illegal for Google to do directly

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#88

Post by mabbo » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:20 AM UTC

> The 132,000 square foot state-of-the-art office

That's it? This is a major HQ?

A typical office is going to need at 150 to 200sqft per person total between desk areas, common areas (kitchen, hallway) and conference rooms.

132,000 sqft is a tight fit for 70 people.

I guess they're expecting most employees to be mostly remote then.

Edit: Yep, I'm off my an order of magnitude! Not deleting this for the sake of posterity. Remember folks: don't post before your morning caffeine.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#89

Post by maccard » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

johnebgd wrote: post #86

maccard wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timezone issue is as much of a problem as you make it. The difference between the east coast and the UK is 5 hours - the difference between East and West coast is 3 hours. Both of those are very roughly in the ballpark of "half a workday overlapping".

That’s a big problem for a 9-5 culture company in the USA.

By that logic they can't even work from east to west coast then.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#90

Post by jensensbutton » Tue, May 17, 2022, 10:24 AM UTC

frontman1988 wrote: post #34

drewcoo wrote: post #28

'Bout f'n time! They've been dining on Waterloo grads for just about ever now. Waterloo is possibly the best CS school in the world, but we keep ignoring it. (Or talking about Hamilton or Toronto or whatever and not that obvious gem in the crown.) This, too, is hilariously Canadian.

What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller talent pool of that exists in Canada.

> It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT

Based on my experience at multiple FAANGs and medium sized name brand tech companies... they'd much rather have a Waterloo grad than the above. Can't beat the education combined with the co-op experience.