Live data from Hacker News

Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

calnewport.com

21–30 of 486 posts

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#21
post #2

There's some real things I want to appreciate & root into here, but as a geek growing up, one of my greatest & most persistence annoyances was how easy & happy it was for so many around me to pick being so ignorant, so blind, so insular. Heck yes ignoring the world & big matters makes you happier. Heck yes keeping blinders on & seeing less is safer, more secure, simpler. But fuck that. Fuck ignorance. Face things, se…

And you learned of reality, and what did you do to change it. What did you personally gain? What did you personally contribute to the collective?

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#22
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media isn't the world, or a big matter. One can still read/engage with the news without having to deal with as many dark patterns. We don't have a public digital square, but I'm not going to help Zuckerberg et al further privatize it at my own mental expense.

idk about that, a lot of news sources feel like they're optimizing for clicks too. where is some boring neutral news? then am i to broken to even stick with something like at this point lol maybe i need the clickbait i agree with the main point, social media isnt the world. i think people forget that

There are some news sources that are less click baity and partisan, such as Axios, DW, or Reuters. If you can read French, courrier international is decent too.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#23
post #2

There's some real things I want to appreciate & root into here, but as a geek growing up, one of my greatest & most persistence annoyances was how easy & happy it was for so many around me to pick being so ignorant, so blind, so insular. Heck yes ignoring the world & big matters makes you happier. Heck yes keeping blinders on & seeing less is safer, more secure, simpler. But fuck that. Fuck ignorance. Face things, se…

I’m all for engagement in news, world events and deliberate conversations.

Social media seems different in that increased feed engagement (read: revenue) for these companies can be to feed into insecurities. That’s not informational, that’s predatory.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#24

At Facebook / Meta, employees often questioned Mark Zuckerberg whenever a study like this came out. Zuckerberg noted that the same held true for news media. Reporters do not like to mention this.

My Twitter feed is basically the news. The first 4 of 5 posts are from established news organizations or about current events. Social media vs news media is a distinction without a difference.

I think of it the other way around, that "news" sites have become social media aggregators.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#25
post #18

Does this include HN? Asking for a friend. Snark aside, why is this a recurring obsession of HN posters?

> why is this a recurring obsession of HN posters? Most of us would have doom scrolled in one form or another, many do it regularly, which can be hugely detrimental to life satisfaction in the same way any addiction could be, and can also increase anxiety. It's also in the interest of app makers to encourage these mostly destructive habits.

Yeah I would say doomscrolling and content which milk strong emotional reactions are culprits.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#26

At Facebook / Meta, employees often questioned Mark Zuckerberg whenever a study like this came out. Zuckerberg noted that the same held true for news media. Reporters do not like to mention this.

Depends on the news source. There is a noticeable difference between Tweets and unverified Facebook posts, news media from Buzzfeed or Salon, articles from a local newspaper, articles from The New York Times/Washington Post, and articles from the Financial Times or The Wall Street Journal.

Not all news is designed for outrage. Several publications publish in-depth articles in a neutral way, where you can actually learn something. Investigations are also often genuinely useful for a better society. Zuckerberg's position therefore doesn't hold true for all news media.

Separately, depending on how your social media feed is set up, you can be feel jealous/lesser due to seeing the high points of the lives of people you know (depending on your personality type), seeing news on your feed, or seeing neither due to subscribing to accounts in niche fields.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#27
post #2

There's some real things I want to appreciate & root into here, but as a geek growing up, one of my greatest & most persistence annoyances was how easy & happy it was for so many around me to pick being so ignorant, so blind, so insular. Heck yes ignoring the world & big matters makes you happier. Heck yes keeping blinders on & seeing less is safer, more secure, simpler. But fuck that. Fuck ignorance. Face things, se…

if you decide to experience the entire world, all the time, there's no respite from the awful. the human mind just isn't capable of handling that well.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#28
I stopped reading twitter and the boredom is only helping me find more interesting things to read (Kindle mainly)

But I miss being snarky with a small circuit of online acquaintances. It was ego fulfilling, dropping one liners on almost-famous people (in context) and getting some degree of recognition.

I'm getting some flak from family glued on, who want to know "where I went" but thats survivable.

On the whole, agree with the premise. Its trash. USENET pre great-re-org was slow trash, ML are trashy only in very minor ways. Fast trash is worserer.

HN is not that bad. I think it goes to moderation (Good job Dan!) which is done carefully. A blog I like has the byline "my blog my rules" and you know, for anything short of speakers corner I think this is fine: its not the commons.

Elon and Donald can play there all they like.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#29
post #2

There's some real things I want to appreciate & root into here, but as a geek growing up, one of my greatest & most persistence annoyances was how easy & happy it was for so many around me to pick being so ignorant, so blind, so insular. Heck yes ignoring the world & big matters makes you happier. Heck yes keeping blinders on & seeing less is safer, more secure, simpler. But fuck that. Fuck ignorance. Face things, se…

Picture an individual doom-scrolling through their feed, feeling empowered by their knowledge. Can you see it? Poof. You wake up.

Re: Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious

#30

Does this include HN? Asking for a friend. Snark aside, why is this a recurring obsession of HN posters?

I'd argue that it can include HN, but HN is not designed to be nearly as toxic, and actually goes out of the way to be "as not-toxic as possible without breaking the concept of what it's trying to be."

I've spent a while thinking through "What makes social media evil?" - I've read a number of studies, I grew up with the first wave of what we might call "social media" (never used MySpace but was quite familiar with it from friends, extensively used LiveJournal, etc). And my conclusion is that once you go away from "global state" to "individualized algorithmic feeds," it's probably gone evil.

HN, as far as I can tell, has a global state. There may be some replication delays (if it's hosted on multiple servers, which I simply don't know - I can't imagine it requires much in terms of resources to host), but "I see what you see what a non-logged in user sees," with only very, very few differences (flagged/dead posts, mostly). It's not reordering the state based on what it knows about me - it's reordering, globally, for all users, based on the consensus. The same was true of LJ - you had your own feed, but outside permission related differences, if I looked at a community and you did, we both saw the same thing.

This global state also means that there's no "slot machine" behavior of "pull the slider and see what's new." You refresh. It's the same stuff. Maybe two things switched positions. Go away, because it's simply not going to change that fast for you.

HN also doesn't go with the endless scrolling. There's a bottom of the first page. You have to make a deliberate decision to see beyond it, and that's something that historically was just "how things worked," but has been replaced with the bottomless bowl approach. We know that people, given a bottomless bowl of soup, eat more. And given that every ad revenue based social media company has gone to that model, clearly people consume more.

Humans are vulnerable to "metricification" quirks, and you see that with a lot of social medias too. HN only shows your up/down votes, and you can't see anything else. There's a demetrificator extension for it, though I would like the option to turn the metrics off in my profile.

And, finally, HN is "pull" - I have to go to the site, vs it reaching out with notifications to try and drag me back in. Plus, there's the noprocrast setting. It gives you the tools to make it a nuisance to use too much.

So, while HN can be somewhat addictive if you let it, the lack of any "weaponization of psychology" tricks and the very active "No, really, you've been looking at it too long, go away" coding means that I don't consider it particularly toxic, and certainly not in the same style as FB/Twitter/etc.

Why it's a recurring obsession? Probably because a lot of us have been in the tech industry, have seen how it works, have (probably) been addicted at some point, have watched the whole concept go from "Huh, this is kind of a neat way to connect with people I'd never talk to otherwise!" to "Braaaaaaiiiiiinss... via eeeeeyyyyyeeebaaaallllssss!" in the past 10-15 years, and really want no part of it anymore, and want to help ensure other people see it for the vile, human-toxic trash it is.

It'll destroy your ability to focus, make you less emotionally unstable, warp your view of reality in one of a variety of ways, suck basically all the time you let it, try with every trick in the book to addict you. And in exchange, some tech billionaires get another couple feet on their yachts. Yay?

Post reply on HN