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$3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

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Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#441

Post by whatshisface »

neltnerb wrote: post #437
rntksi wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP is probably referring to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

Ah, thanks, very interesting. So it sounds like this "ERM" is algorithmic enough that it broke things. It did get stopped due to human intervention though, so it feels like a weak metaphor. I hope international currency markets aren't quite so fast... hopefully we won't find out.

The very concept of a currency peg is that you sell things in exchange for the currency when it is not valued highly enough, and buy things in exchange for it when it is valued too highly. It wasn't the implementation that is algorithmic, it was the idea of a pegged currency itself that made Black Wednesday inevitable.

If a national government can't maintain the value of their currency, they aren't backing it, and if they have so much gold that they can maintain the peg no matter what happens, it isn't fiat (the gold standard is where the government will sell and buy gold at a fixed price, printing or destroying currency in the process). So I would conclude that fiat currencies aren't backed by anything.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#442

Post by sasssafrasss »

kgwxd wrote: post #351
sangnoir wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dark joke, with perhaps a hint of OJ Simpson, but a solid nerd joke nonetheless.

I thought maybe a message about using protection.

Yeah: "No glove, no love."

That was much funnier back in high school health class, but it sure is easy to remember.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#443

Post by vmception »

jtbayly wrote: post #431
vmception wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Not everything bad is the same bad thing 2) Try stepping outside of your filter bubble. There are some websites that let you browse the internet within a different filter bubble to see how different it is

I see you haven't given a single reason to think this actually happened. I suppose there must not be one.

Alright. Fine, I'll concede its fine to be skeptical of their actions, I just don't care enough because of the other bigger ways that it doesn't make a difference for the burned user.

Okay, people are out for blood from someone they trusted that did a bunch of dumb things extremely transparently while undiscerning users chose to ignore that. So they want to find a bad opaque thing now to justify their anger and legal or extrajudicial retaliation, which won't help any recovery of assets whether the opaque thing was bad or done properly.

Interesting season arc. I guess. It would be way more interesting if it was used to bailout whales or pocket for himself.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#444

Post by vkou »

jpmattia wrote: post #410
vkou wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Into a mess for who? Depositors? Could you summarize how much money depositors across the entire United States lost to bank busts over the past, say 40 years? And how does it stand up, compared to the crypto-of-the-month scams, losses, and exchange busts?

> Could you summarize how much money depositors across the entire United States lost to bank busts over the past, say 40 years? Nominal or actual? Just the Federal Savings and Loan crisis + the TARP bailouts were billions from the dilution of dollars. And that's just the US.

The FSL crisis was caused by wild-west deregulation, accounting practices which have since been banned, and resulted in a thousand convictions.

The crypto space is repeating all the same bullet points, except with more outright fraud, with less accounting, and without any convictions.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#445

Post by whatshisface »

squidbeak wrote: post #425
whatshisface wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat currency does not actually have the backing of a government. What could the UK do when the pound peg broke? Nothing but lose enormous amounts of money trying to hold it.

It could leave the Exchange Rate Mechanism which created the conditions for the run. And it did. Fiat currency always has the backing of a government, as 'fiat' suggests.

When the UK ended the ERM, they stopped backing the currency. The UK does not back the pound, the pound does whatever the market wants it to do.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#446

Post by jpmattia »

vkou wrote: post #444
jpmattia wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could you summarize how much money depositors across the entire United States lost to bank busts over the past, say 40 years? Nominal or actual? Just the Federal Savings and Loan crisis + the TARP bailouts were billions from the dilution of dollars. And that's just the US.

The FSL crisis was caused by wild-west deregulation, accounting practices which have since been banned, and resulted in a thousand convictions. The crypto space is repeating all the same bullet points, except with more outright fraud, with less accounting, and without any convictions.

> The FSL crisis was caused by wild-west deregulation, accounting practices which have since been banned, and resulted in a thousand convictions.

I'm guessing you did not live through it: Like 2008, there were many causes. See eg the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis#Causes

But you also missed the heart of the matter: Money that was lost in the US, despite it having a regulated banking system.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#447

Post by lamontcg »

lkrubner wrote: post #263
lamontcg wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “In a sense, the market is going to take that as kind of bullish.” I mean everything is a bit oversold right now on negative emotions, both in the crypto space and in the stock markets. There's probably going to be a positive bounce just because markets don't move in straight lines. There is always the chance that something else explodes due to stress tomorrow and hits the headlines and crypto and/or stocks start m…

"everything is a bit oversold right now on negative emotions" No!!! The Fed is raising rates. That is reality. That is not an emotion. That is absolute economic fact. Inflation is high and will remain high for at least a year (maybe longer). The period from 2008 to 2022 is going to be remembered as an abnormal period when we experienced abnormally low rates. The low rates fueled speculation, and bid up certain stocks…

Okay, go out and buy puts on the S&P500 that are 6 months out and see how you do. I suspect the market will bounce and blow you out.

Rates are rising, but the yield curve isn't inverted yet, and the stock market is unlikely to continue this losing streak straight down. It normally doesn't happen that way. Emotions right now are very negative and a lot of people are going to make bets thats are exceedingly negative and in the 3-6 month short term period other people will make money off of them.

This does not feel to me like the start of the crash, possibly not even the top, although we might go sideways until the crash.

And there will be low interest rates again.

The point of the Fed raising interest rates on the low end is to tank the economy hard enough to eliminate wage inflation. Given the overhang of jobs over jobseekers (and likely the effects of COVID death and disability on the workforce and boomers retiring) this one is likely to be exceedingly painful.

When the Fed engineers the economy tanking that means that rates will get slashed again and >10 year bonds will not budge upwards.

What it will look like when long rates go up is that wage inflation will actually take hold consistently.

And low rates already blew up the dot com bubble in 2001 and the housing bubble in 2008. Read up on the Greenspan Fed.

They're going to jack rates up, tank the economy and then go back to ZIRP again.

Short rates != Long rates. Fed doesn't control long rates.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#448

Post by Firmwarrior »

codehalo wrote: post #314
snovv_crash wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course, the music keeps playing as long as Binance has liquidity.

Still doesn't have anything to do with Bitcoin, or the bitcoin supply.

They're explaining that your algorithmic science money is susceptible to the same forces that Crypto Faithful say turn USD into Fiat Clown Coins

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#449

Post by louloulou »

SkipperCat wrote: post #426
eric_cc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'this is good for bitcoin' A total ponzi scam coin crashed. This IS good for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not Luna nor is it one of the thousands of other garbage scam coins. The faster those coins are proven scams the better. Too many people falsely equate "Bitcoin === Crypto".. or "a fan of bitcoin is a fan of all crypto". So I'd bounce this back to you: How is Luna's Ponzi crash NOT good for bitcoin?

is the demise of Luna a sign that Bitcoin is a survivor or is Bitcoin just the last part of the Titanic still sticking out of the water. Time will tell but I am not bullish on cryptocurrency. Anything can be a store of wealth. NFTs even had their day in the sun but it's hard to stay valuable unless you are providing actual value. So I ask, where' the value in Bitcoin. It used to be a great way to launder money, not s…

A globally accessible sound money that can be stored in your brain is pretty valuable to me.

Re: $3B in Bitcoin was sold in a last-ditch attempt to save UST from collapse

#450

Post by louloulou »

mdorazio wrote: post #371
mrb wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"costs so much to transfer btc" That's not true. The typical credit card processing fee ranges from about 1.3% to 3.5%. Average international remittance fees are about 7%. For comparison the average Bitcoin fee is about $1 right now, so 1% on a $100 transaction. So Bitcoin compares favorably to its competitors.

1) why are you comparing to credit cards? The average ACH transfer costs zero dollars. 2) why did you pick $100 as your basis? If I try to buy a $5 sandwich in Bitcoin and have to pay 20% transaction fee that is not a good platform for transactions. I like some parts of crypto, but transaction fees on most coins right now are not one of those parts.

> 1) why are you comparing to credit cards? The average ACH transfer costs zero dollars.

As far as I understand ACH doesn't work globally

> 2) why did you pick $100 as your basis? If I try to buy a $5 sandwich in Bitcoin and have to pay 20% transaction fee that is not a good platform for transactions.

Or use lightning and pay a fraction of a cent transaction fee

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