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Why did Heroku fail?

matt-rickard.com

151–160 of 161 posts

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#151
post #113

Are there any real alternatives to Heroku for small to medium sized projects? I am talking about projects with only one or two engineers. Those engineers likely focus on providing value for the customer by improving the actual product itself. Instead of taking care of deploying their project on AWS, which is quite complex, if you do not use it regularly. I am myself maintaining a custom built webshop/ERP system for a…

App Platform from Digital Ocean is not as full-featured as Heroku but you can tell they are building towards parity. Good pricing and thus far no real hiccups for us in 1 year of usage.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#152
post #22

i started at a company as engineer #1 and my first task was to take an outsourced MVP built on heroku, port it from ruby to python, and make it work on aws. there was seemingly no logical reason to do any of this-- the product was at an early stage with nearly no traffic. even if the product were to become immensely successful, the traffic would probably never require more than a single box. but none of this seemed t…

As the engineer #1 did you have any equity? If yes, was it OK for you to work on an unreasonable task?

Was the company successful after all?

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#153
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will they perform better if I give them a million dollars for free?

So your main complaint is: "People without ownership act without ownership"?

The basic principle of ownership is:

- You get $0 on day one,

- After the job is done and it hits the market, you may get a million dollars.

What employees want:

- Be paid full market rate from day one even if it doesn’t work,

- AND ALSO getting dividends if it works,

It looks like you are just advocating to give them more more more. But let’s entertain the idea of implementing your advice seriously:

- I’d have to hire entrepreneurs who understand how market moves and what the risks are,

- I’d have to sell them stock on a given FMV that we determine together (Fair Market Value, =valuation per share), so FMV=0$ when the company starts, but it’s much higher when they join 5 years later when the product has already hit big and the good ideas are there. Estimating valuation is extremely hard and they would probably feel on the hook. If I value the current company at €6m, so let’s say €2m as a rebate, they’d have to get €600k out of pocket to buy shares; If they buy only €100k because they don’t have the lumpsum, they’d get 1/36th of dividends. We’ve made 1m this year, that guy would get 20k. You see, it’s hard to estimate a company clearly. If they don’t get large dividends, they’d complain I had cheated them with a too high valuation. And programmers in France don’t have economy education in their curriculum, so they’d think I cheated them, rather than them not producing the proper output (people with no economic education tend to get angry at people around them when they take the wrong decision),

- They’d leave the boat to work somewhere else as soon as the market shrinks, and they’d still get 1/6th of our dividends without working for us, which has a disproportional impact on those who stay,

When you think about how to do your advice in practice, I don’t think it solves what you think it solves.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#155
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your main complaint is: "People without ownership act without ownership"?

The basic principle of ownership is: - You get $0 on day one, - After the job is done and it hits the market, you may get a million dollars. What employees want: - Be paid full market rate from day one even if it doesn’t work, - AND ALSO getting dividends if it works, It looks like you are just advocating to give them more more more. But let’s entertain the idea of implementing your advice seriously: - I’d have to hi…

If all you offer is a pay cheque, don’t complain people only work for the pay cheque.

I’m not telling you how to run your company, or offering any solutions. I’m just trying to offer some perspective.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#156
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic principle of ownership is: - You get $0 on day one, - After the job is done and it hits the market, you may get a million dollars. What employees want: - Be paid full market rate from day one even if it doesn’t work, - AND ALSO getting dividends if it works, It looks like you are just advocating to give them more more more. But let’s entertain the idea of implementing your advice seriously: - I’d have to hi…

If all you offer is a pay cheque, don’t complain people only work for the pay cheque. I’m not telling you how to run your company, or offering any solutions. I’m just trying to offer some perspective.

You don’t transform people by giving them the power of deciding.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#157
post #22

i started at a company as engineer #1 and my first task was to take an outsourced MVP built on heroku, port it from ruby to python, and make it work on aws. there was seemingly no logical reason to do any of this-- the product was at an early stage with nearly no traffic. even if the product were to become immensely successful, the traffic would probably never require more than a single box. but none of this seemed t…

As the engineer #1 did you have any equity? If yes, was it OK for you to work on an unreasonable task? Was the company successful after all?

Yes I had equity. I'm fine working on unreasonable things to an extent. On the one hand in an early startup you have a lot of input on how things should work. On the other it can be hard to push hard against an owner's idea when you're in no position of power

The company was acquired at an early stage by another private company.

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#158

I was a relatively early Heroku employee, though still technically started _after_ the acquisition. I've spent the much of the last 10 years hoping that I once again get to be part of such a failure. It's such a rare opportunity to work with an amazing team of talented people who set a new standard for what a great developer experience is, how simple it should be to run containerized workloads, that a robust build pi…

Agree 100%. Also, thanks for hiring me into Heroku at the time, even if it's behind both of us now <3

Re: Why did Heroku fail?

#159
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Github A]ctions and much of the GitHub turn around happened long before the acquisition Interesting - someone at either MS or Github told me that the Azure DevOps team moved over to GitHub to create Actions. But maybe I misheard or both versions are true.

Yeah, not sure how much I can say, but this is definitely a repainting of reality. Actions at least the vision of what it would/could be was before acquisition.

As an early adopter of actions I remember that it was wildly different in its first version (beta perhaps?) than it is today. I have no source to back this up because it was too long ago, but I feel like I remember hearing at the time that the reason it changed so much was _in part_ because of the ADO presence. So I think you're right that the vision was there before hand, but what we have today is very much because of the influence of ADO (in particular, the mandate to run actions _on_ Azure, IIRC).
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