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Web3 is expensive P2P

netfuture.ch

161–170 of 384 posts

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#161
P2P isn't bad thing though right? Or many would argue it's a great thing.

Web3 is systematized, open, and properly incentivized P2P. That sounds like a great value prop. This has allowed an ecosystem to be built to push it into the mainstream which is his primary challenge with P2P

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#162

What is the value proposition of web3 to the user? JS web apps offloaded the compute and memory onto the browser/client, web3 to offload storage costs onto the user. You will up pay for every click. web3 and metaverse feels so dystopian. but the young generations that were raised by tiktok will probably accept it.

Its very developer friendly Now we don’t have to pay for any costs (maaaaybe a smart contract deployment once) and the users can’t help themselves from interacting Compared to web 2 marketing funnels, this is a one click funnel where every click is a payment. (Every click doesnt have to be a payment, users dont currently care) Thats a great value proposition Cheaper to operate, faster to accept payment, better path t…

Faster to accept payment? How is it easier for me to accept payment in eth and use it to pay my energy bill than it is to set up stripe?

Also, you claim a better path to getting payment? What is better about it? As far as I can see either I trust a third party to act as an intermediate to save in gas tax, or I charge multiple dollars to verify payment "immediately" - i.e. anytime in the next few hours if imlucky, depending on the currency. Of course there are coins out there that don't have these problems (yet) but then I need to go find an exchange that supports the coin I have and the coin I want, transfer them (see above) and _then_ pay? I don't see how this as a consumer is easier than having my browser autofill my credit card, or as a developer is easier than implementing a handful of functions to accept currency my users already use.

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#163

What Web3 should be is a) identity, and b) digital payment. I am of the opinion that the state should provide digital identity service. Estonia is a good example, from what I've heard, of a state that is doing this effectively. As for digital payment, Brazil seems to be in the lead now with Pix. I see no valid role for private companies nor blockchains in providing digital ID and currency services.

> I am of the opinion that the state should provide digital identity service No thanks. Privacy is a human right.

If the options are a) government or b) private company, then I will choose government. I guess the issue is does one trust one's government.

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#164

What is the value proposition of web3 to the user? JS web apps offloaded the compute and memory onto the browser/client, web3 to offload storage costs onto the user. You will up pay for every click. web3 and metaverse feels so dystopian. but the young generations that were raised by tiktok will probably accept it.

If you're talking about visitors to a web3 website, ideally they shouldn't be able to tell if it's web3 or not. But I believe the value proposition is for people who have spare bandwidth/compute/storage and want to make money. Currently internet infrastructure (like AWS) is largely owned by a few corps. Web3 has the potential to let anybody join, distributing the infrastructure across individual providers like what U…

Uber is the polar opposite of what web 3 purports - it's a closed garden of a standard that allows other members to play by their rules.

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#165
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game devs could offer transferable content without stores if they stopped using the stores (ok, admittedly, iOS makes this harder). Web3 has nothing to do with this.

it has everything to do with it: 1. you purchase digital items with centralized payment processors like VISA 2. the asset is transferred to your centralized iOS/Steam account. you do not "own" it, the company owns it. if you are banned from Steam, you lose all your games and game purchases. web3 is asking how these two things can be changed to remove the intermediary. the best frame for this is not "web3 ideals are n…

Is it? I've heard a lot of people claim this, but I've never seen any indication of platforms or standards that are attempting to do it, instead I'm seeing dozens of "centralised platform but on a blockchain".

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about visitors to a web3 website, ideally they shouldn't be able to tell if it's web3 or not. But I believe the value proposition is for people who have spare bandwidth/compute/storage and want to make money. Currently internet infrastructure (like AWS) is largely owned by a few corps. Web3 has the potential to let anybody join, distributing the infrastructure across individual providers like what U…

Uber is the polar opposite of what web 3 purports - it's a closed garden of a standard that allows other members to play by their rules.

That's fair, I was just using them as an example of a share economy

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#167
post #130

I think the main issue I have is with the name. 3 is implied to be better and replacing 2. I'm not sure if the future we are heading to is actually that way but the name kinda led people to believe it is.

It's essentially supposed to mean the full maturation of P2P solutions that can rival the centralized web. A modern decentralized web, with finance included.

There are plenty of things still missing which make it not mature enough to do so, which are too numerous and esoteric to name. But one example would be "account abstraction" (https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-4337) which I believe would enable communities to trustlessly share a single wallet (pooled funds/coins/gas) for various operations related to the service they're using. Doesn't sound like much, but would open up the possibility of some wacky services.

From my perspective, the end goal is to make digital networked vending machines that can't be tampered with. That's pretty cool, and there are already some interesting ones out there like PoolTogether (https://pooltogether.com/). What would normally be considered an obvious scam can actually be built legitimately with web3 tech.

Eventually some very very interesting EIPs will be deployed, and that will drastically change what's possible with "web3" - making it possibly live up to the name.

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#168

What is the value proposition of web3 to the user? JS web apps offloaded the compute and memory onto the browser/client, web3 to offload storage costs onto the user. You will up pay for every click. web3 and metaverse feels so dystopian. but the young generations that were raised by tiktok will probably accept it.

Story time. About 20 years ago, when dialup was introduced where I grew up, my uncle called me to show him what this new internet thing is. As soon as I opened "yahoo.com", he asked "how am I paying to view Yahoo?". I said you're not paying anybody, you're just paying for the Internet connection. He nodded. I then showed him Hotmail. He kept asking "ok so now, how did they charge me to view this page?". I kept tellin…

Pre-web services like Compuserve were pay-per-hour IIRC. Nowadays there is a very distant chance that Brave fixes this. I've always felt that micropayments are the best application for cryptocurrency, but because they aren't lucrative they're mostly ignored in the space. It seems Stellar is humming along, and I remain a (somewhat bitter) Nano holder, but otherwise everything is about "trustless protocols" and "decentralized platforms" and other hogwash that ignores the scaling issues inherent to digital ledgers.

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#169

What is the value proposition of web3 to the user? JS web apps offloaded the compute and memory onto the browser/client, web3 to offload storage costs onto the user. You will up pay for every click. web3 and metaverse feels so dystopian. but the young generations that were raised by tiktok will probably accept it.

Data portability is a huge value prop: Everywhere you sign-in, you already have all of your data. Is it bad to pay to click, if you earn more from the ads on the page? Along with micro-payments, you also micro-earn.

What data do I actually want to carry across websites? I actually don't understand the value here.

Is it that I don't have to re-enter my personal information on each site? Signing in with Google already gets me that. Is it something else?

Is it some kind of JSON blob that every service will know how to ingest properly?

Re: Web3 is expensive P2P

#170
OK, so granted the boxes-and-arrows descriptions of these software systems are identical if you squint to things we built decades ago. But the social way that human reason about these systems -- that is different this time.

Gentle readers, last night I dreamed I was seated in the nave of a tall cathedral, watching four bishops conduct a service at an altar. There were readings with the call-and-response ("The word of the Lord" - "Thanks be to God"). There was the sitting and the standing.

And then, I swear to you I am not making this up, each of the parishioners gave some bitcoin to each of the four bishops, and the cryptocurrency was transubstantiated as it passed through each officeholder into the central coffers. In my dream that church service cleared some 30,000 units (BTC or USD, I do not know).

I woke up abruptly with a profound sense of "what just happened?". How did I "see" people giving bitcoin to bishops? Did I have a dream about a metaverse church service?!? What is going on here?!? I think I have been reading too much Matt Levine. I would like off Mr. Bones's wild ride.

But, friends, I would NEVER have had a dream like this about Beenz or Flooz. Something is very different about this one.

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