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Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

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41–50 of 310 posts

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#41
post #2

But turks said no.

Nah, and also Turkey (similar to when people argued that Hungary or Croatia would object) would be kicked out of NATO before Sweden and Finland would be prevented from joining.

"But how would they do that? There's no process.. etc."

They can just take a vote and then that's that. Likely Turkey will get some appeasement concessions, but there's no serious risk here.

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#42
post #37
post #2

But turks said no.

Turks are trying to establish some diplomatic bridge with Russia; that's very good. Russian aggression in Ukraine is terrible, but I feel the US are not trying to de-escalate anything. They are in full proxy-war mode. This can be very dangerous for Europe. France and Germany also would like to have more diplomacy, just like Turkey. Those countries have to live next to Russia - and maintaining a diplomatic relationshi…

But what do you mean by de-escalate? Give territorial concessions to Russia?

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#43
post #37
post #2

But turks said no.

Turks are trying to establish some diplomatic bridge with Russia; that's very good. Russian aggression in Ukraine is terrible, but I feel the US are not trying to de-escalate anything. They are in full proxy-war mode. This can be very dangerous for Europe. France and Germany also would like to have more diplomacy, just like Turkey. Those countries have to live next to Russia - and maintaining a diplomatic relationshi…

The problem with de-escalation is this: what compromise is possible here?

Ukraine should just give up its independence and land and ability to seek justice for the horrific war crimes?

Russia has the power to de-escalate by withdrawing. Ukraine has the power to de-escalate by ceasing to exist.

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#44
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather NATO drop Turkey, or Sweden drop the PKK? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-meet-turkey-critic... "The problem is that these two countries are openly supporting and engaging with PKK and YPG. These are terrorist organisations that have been attacking our troops every day," Mevlut Cavusoglu said as he arrived in Berlin for a meeting with his NATO counterparts. "Therefore it is unacceptable and…

But Sweden and Finland are NOT "openly supporting" the PKK and YPG. Just copying the Erdogan propaganda is at best lazy. Nor is it correct to label these organizations as entirely "terrorist". The reality is a lot more complicated, but Erdogan would very much like you to simplify "organized Kurds = Terrorists"...

If they aren't then what's the problem?

On the other hand, if the PKK is able to fundraise in Sweden and Finland like the IRA used to be able to in the US, then it seems logical for Turkey to use whatever leverage they have to decrease that activity, similar to GB.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1987/03/22/i...

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#45
post #32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is still part of the british empire/commonwealth. They gained independence and left the british empire. A few years later, they rejoined it. They actually claim the british queen as their head of state - even if it is ceremonial only.

The Republic of India definitely does not have the queen as head of state, ceremonial or otherwise.

India is the most independent amongst the vassals. But it's not a fully independent nation like the US, russia, china or even north korea.

No truly independent nation would be part of the commonwealth of nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

Leaders

• Head Queen Elizabeth II

• Secretary-General The Baroness Scotland of Asthal

• Chair-in-Office Boris Johnson

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#46
post #37
post #2

But turks said no.

Turks are trying to establish some diplomatic bridge with Russia; that's very good. Russian aggression in Ukraine is terrible, but I feel the US are not trying to de-escalate anything. They are in full proxy-war mode. This can be very dangerous for Europe. France and Germany also would like to have more diplomacy, just like Turkey. Those countries have to live next to Russia - and maintaining a diplomatic relationshi…

[deleted]

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#47
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the modern world, there are only 4 independent states - US, china, russia and north korea. Everyone else is a vassal to some degree or another. Wut? North Korea is the vassalist vassal that ever vassaled. Russia might be getting there.

No. They are the most indepedentest of the independent. They only serve one lunatic dictator and his family. And developed nuclear weapons against the wishes of US, china and russia. Can't get more independent than that. It's a country that literally starved itself to stay independent.

North Korea is a China vassal in the same way any random dictatorship in South America is probably a US vassal.

China has huge influence on NK as their largest economic partner.

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had to choose, NATO would probably rather have Sweden and Finland in and Turkey out. Here's an interesting thread on Finland's strategic importance: https://twitter.com/tomiahonen/status/1525959053490458624

NATO is not just about Russia. To me, suggesting that Sweden is somehow more strategically important than Turkey is foreign policy illiterate. Turkey brings a military ~30x the size of Sweden, they are actively involved in being a buffer for conflicts in the Middle East, and they have an advanced military manufacturing capability that they have used to supply Ukraine and others with military drones. They also have su…

They can also close the gates to the Mediterranean sea.

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#49
post #47
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. They are the most indepedentest of the independent. They only serve one lunatic dictator and his family. And developed nuclear weapons against the wishes of US, china and russia. Can't get more independent than that. It's a country that literally starved itself to stay independent.

North Korea is a China vassal in the same way any random dictatorship in South America is probably a US vassal. China has huge influence on NK as their largest economic partner.

No. South korea is a vassal. A vassal of the US. It has american troops occupying it. North korea is opposite of what south korea is. They have no foreign troop occupying it. And if north korea was a chinese vassal, they wouldn't have nuclear weapons. It's funny how people want to ignore the obvious.

Re: Sweden to Apply for NATO Membership

#50
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything has a price

The problem may very well be that Putin has bought off or compromised Erdogan in some form. Then there is no price high enough.

Realistically Erdogan doesn't have the power to stop this.
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