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Many software companies are a joke

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Re: Many software companies are a joke

#181
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the teams changes? Intricacies must be documented despite that probably nobody will ever read it. Somebody might depend on it. Writing code is more about communicating how to solve a problem than just solving a problem, that's how I view it. If you don't communicate, nobody except you will ever understand it. It might be that you don't need to document a lot, maybe most is obvious if the key parts are suffici…

What if the teams changes? Yeah, documentation will definitely help in this case. With it, you can swap teams and even companies, and it still works! This only fails in companies which do not review documentation and have no routine for keeping it in sync and testing it on e.g. newcomers, like you do for backups. Cause otherwise it is as good as never tested six months old backup.

It's always fun if a product is based on 20 year old code where there are parts that nobody can touch because there's nobody around who understands what's going on there. I once saw a flight-training software (I think it was for helicopters?) where the physics engine just didn't get touched because they don't know what's going on. Every change was essentially a hack around this blob of years old, highly optimised but totally incomprehensible C.

EDIT: It might have even been fortran code. The rest of the project was C++

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#182

Astonishing to me that someone with 20 years' experience in any industry could have so little perspective. Obviously there are inefficiencies with big companies, but complaining about needing to do documentation, or basic project management? The writing is smug and shows no self awareness - it seems to me that the author cannot recognise that there may be other priorities than exactly what is in front of them and the…

I agree that the tone of the article is off but I don't agree with this statement:

> Obviously there are inefficiencies with big companies, but complaining about needing to do documentation, or basic project management?

This sounds like you've never been in a big org where you write more word docs than you do code. I have. It was terrible for a few reasons:

* Those docs go out of date with the code very quickly and so are not a good reference to what the code actually does

* They eat up a lot of project time and so projects tend to become late. As the documentation is what you have to write first by the time you get to the code you have much less time to actually write the dam code

* Extreme documentation actually reduces code quality. I've worked on many code bases where the code actually references page numbers and sections rather than what it actually doing. This is often the case with contractors that are only on project for a short amount of time and thus translate the docs directly into code. Also if there are and errors when creating these docs they are often translated into the code often into performance / non-functional problems

* Docs written after the fact end up being rather pointless / unusable as you'll have to describe all the weird things you done to make it work properly / fast ...etc

* Non technical people will read what you've written not understand it, because it's highly technical, misinterpret it then use that strange idea of things they've got all over the place. Like someone that doesn't know what a Foreign Key is but seen it once and sticks them on every column in the DB. Then you'll have to have a fight with them as "it says here on this doc"

I could go on but I suspect what I've written here is quite unpopular so I'll end by saying that documentation is very hard to write correctly you need specialists who know exactly how to describe what's been done in the system to others. You also need to balance the amount of docs you create vs the actual work on creating the thing.

Again on Project Management you described it as "Obviously there are inefficiencies with big companies" that sounds like you've never been in a full 8 hour days worth of meetings getting 0 coding done and just explaining to 10 different managers what needs to be done. Some of these big corporates are so colossally inefficient that people have been quitting on mass during the pandemic to get away from it. It's a serious problem not just to be swept under the rug like oh well that's just what big companies do. I heard someone either on reddit or on here defend a 3 hour long "daily standup" meeting because it was good to know what the devs are doing. Like yeah there are in you meeting for 1/2 of the day.

Now I don't condone 0 project management but companies seriously need to cut it back. Tools like Jira have made working hell for some programmers.

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#183

Astonishing to me that someone with 20 years' experience in any industry could have so little perspective. Obviously there are inefficiencies with big companies, but complaining about needing to do documentation, or basic project management? The writing is smug and shows no self awareness - it seems to me that the author cannot recognise that there may be other priorities than exactly what is in front of them and the…

Yep. I think the author fails to understand that coding is only a small part of the process of writing production software.

But there are different roles that come into play when it comes to writing production software:

- the code, obviously

- infrastructure

- documentation

- wireframes, mock ups

- user manuals?

- monitoring

- ...

Software engineers shouldn't be the ones who address all the points above (otherwise that leads to burned out developers like the author).

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#184
post #148
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally that works but sometimes it doesn't. For example, some people say statements like "I don't want no towels". What they really meant: "I don't want towels" What I get if I cancel the negatives: "I do want towels" The meaning flipped :)

That is incorrect usage though; every rule 'generally works but sometimes doesn't' if we account for people not observing it.

> That is incorrect usage though

We don't need no education

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#185
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author is every software engineer I hate to work with. One who thinks that code is the only truly important part of a project. It's not. "Delivering a product that solves end user needs and is as maintainable and reliable as possible" is the only truly important thing, and only some of that is code. Meetings generally aren't for developers. They're to keep everyone else involved with the project sync'd up. Do I and e…

I mean the author mentions meetings about the color of a chart... it's the kind of meeting they should be able to reject, because I don't believe they would have much of an opinion on the matter, only a decision that they can implement. So if you're in a position like that, assert yourself and your presence in meetings; do you have valuable input that they need? Is there a time set, a concrete goal / agenda? If you d…

Rejecting meetings comes at a cost.

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#186

Astonishing to me that someone with 20 years' experience in any industry could have so little perspective. Obviously there are inefficiencies with big companies, but complaining about needing to do documentation, or basic project management? The writing is smug and shows no self awareness - it seems to me that the author cannot recognise that there may be other priorities than exactly what is in front of them and the…

> but complaining about needing to do documentation, or basic project management?

I think you missed the point about documentation and project management taking inordinate amount of time and manpower compared to the output in both quantity and quality.

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#187
post #113
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was he hired as a product liaison with corporate to attend meetings with clients. No. He was likely hired as a developer. Most of this should appear as requirements via his inbox not be meetings he attends unless there is a screaming problem with a request.

I've worked at a fair number of companies (as either consultant or employee) and rarely have requirements landed neatly and fully-formed in my inbox. I'm sure it happens reliably somewhere, but I'd hazard not at most companies.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen when working with competent people doing their job well.

Consultants only seem to get called in after things have gone wrong too so does your experience support that not doing this is bad practice?

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few days ago, I made a comment about good developers knowing how to think of their work from the business’s perspective. One guy responded by saying his only job is to write code and he doesn’t care about anything else. I just can’t imagine coming to that perspective, even if I understand the desire to have minimal responsibility.

> One guy responded by saying his only job is to write code and he doesn’t care about anything else. Which is such a weird perspective to me. The point of writing software for business is to solve a business problem. Maybe it's a function of working in small companies and/or roles that straddle code writing and business, but I have a hard time writing good code unless I know the business problem space. It's also why…

Code 'longevity' is influenced by many more factors than code quality; e.g. rate of business change, traffic changes, infrastructure dependencies, and the complexity of the surrounding system.

As a pathological counter example think about arcane obtuse code that people are afraid to modify.

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#189

Astonishing to me that someone with 20 years' experience in any industry could have so little perspective. Obviously there are inefficiencies with big companies, but complaining about needing to do documentation, or basic project management? The writing is smug and shows no self awareness - it seems to me that the author cannot recognise that there may be other priorities than exactly what is in front of them and the…

That's fair, and given the tone I wouldn't be surprised if there were some very exaggerated #s there. But if accurate 1-2 hours a day of coding on average is pretty bad. Meeting etc are necessary but it shouldn't be that bad.

Re: Many software companies are a joke

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"maintainable and reliable" are overrated That is popular opinion among the unemployed, as hoisting that BS on your project lead has real world consequences after your code audit. =)

Here is a quick CEO dilemma: You have startup with about 4 people, you did a quick prototype, showed it to some potential customers and the worse has happened: They want it! and they want it now! The head engineer says it's all just a temp hack, it is completely shitty, they could give it to costumers but then the maintenance will be impossible, they will need months to add any new features on top of it, they will pr…

A CEO rarely accepts designing a product for a single customer. If you did, than your team just becomes dependent contractor labor rather than a business.

I will tell you a terrible secret of successful software companies: "One doesn't make money writing software, but rather reselling the same software mullions of times over."

You should know this already. =P

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