How I Started to See Trees as Smart • Hacker News Board

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#31

Post by zubspace » Mon, May 16, 2022, 9:19 AM UTC

doodlebugging wrote: post #18

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #13

> In the game of survival, an insect’s reaction time easily beats my attempts to swat it. I may think of myself as the smartest creature in the room, but a fly can make me look foolish. This just seems completely wrong. The wrongness comes from conflating completely orthogonal concepts: speed of detection, speed of response and "smartness". The fly is very fast at detecting and responding to motion in its vicinity, b…

>The fly is very fast at detecting and responding to motion in its vicinity, but that property does not make the author look foolish, just slow. Actually the author is using the wrong technique if he is trying to swat the fly. Flies use their compound eyes and a collection of sensitive hairs on their bodies to detect threats and avoid being swatted. You can use this to your advantage. When the fly lands on something…

I always use a small tupperware container to catch flies on a flat surface, seal it of with a piece of cardboard and release it outside.

You also avoid the mess left behind when clapping them. And in some way it also feels better.

It's actually a fun hobby of mine and after a while you can catch them nearly always. I also love watching my children trying to copy my approach. Highly recommended!

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#32

Post by top_sigrid » Mon, May 16, 2022, 9:36 AM UTC

While I think this was a good read, I do not like the mingling of scientific reasoning and esoteric thinking in some places. A scientist tripping on a drug has an idea for an experiment and puts it as the plant told her which is then taken as an argument for intelligence in other things than animals. Not a good argument.

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#33

Post by falling_ » Mon, May 16, 2022, 9:44 AM UTC

I don't understand the recent push to ascribe consciousness to trees. An anesthetized human being has many more allostatic and homeostasic mechanisms than a tree, and yet we don't ascribe consciousness to anesthetized humans...

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#34

Post by falling_ » Mon, May 16, 2022, 9:55 AM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #28

popcube wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

usually, we just presume the strategies were stored in genetic level.

We can presume, but Nature keeps her own counsel. Anywhere there is any scope for intelligent behavior and capacity to exercise it, we should expect to see nature explore that, sooner or later. I know no reason to think that could not have been done yet.

There is some scope for winged humans, and hypothetically some capacity to exercise it. Nature did not explore this route. The opportunity cost of exploratory settling into a non-preferred niche usually outweighs the benefits of that exploration simply due to the scarcity of available resources to buffer against the opportunity cost.

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#35

Post by technothrasher » Mon, May 16, 2022, 11:13 AM UTC

doodlebugging wrote: post #18

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #13

> In the game of survival, an insect’s reaction time easily beats my attempts to swat it. I may think of myself as the smartest creature in the room, but a fly can make me look foolish. This just seems completely wrong. The wrongness comes from conflating completely orthogonal concepts: speed of detection, speed of response and "smartness". The fly is very fast at detecting and responding to motion in its vicinity, b…

>The fly is very fast at detecting and responding to motion in its vicinity, but that property does not make the author look foolish, just slow. Actually the author is using the wrong technique if he is trying to swat the fly. Flies use their compound eyes and a collection of sensitive hairs on their bodies to detect threats and avoid being swatted. You can use this to your advantage. When the fly lands on something…

I use a much simpler technique which seems to work for me a similar amount of time. When you clap your hands together, move them up vertically as well as toward each other. Whatever other games they play, the fly will always move upward first.

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#36

Post by peterburkimsher » Mon, May 16, 2022, 11:15 AM UTC

The article says: "First, I took an acid trip. Then I asked scientists about the power of altered states."

Please, don't do drugs. If you play with fire, you might get burned.

There is an alternative. Play with electricity! With a plasma globe. And a radiometer.

What happens when you wave a plasma globe next to high-voltage power cables under a bridge, alone at night? Nothing unusual. What happened when I walked away afterwards? I felt different. Touching a tree made a grounding point.

Yes, ground loops are real. DC and AC are real. Trees are smart, they grow. They're still alive. So are you and I. Let's play in this world and discover something new!

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#37

Post by peterburkimsher » Mon, May 16, 2022, 11:20 AM UTC

bowsamic wrote: post #27

netfl0 wrote: post #10

Summarized in a succinct, allegorical, and atavistic way, this man has discovered the wonder of God’s creation.

In Buddhism we might say, the immense complexity of emptiness, or the dharmakaya

No post body was provided.

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#38

Post by corobo » Mon, May 16, 2022, 11:32 AM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #35

doodlebugging wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fly is very fast at detecting and responding to motion in its vicinity, but that property does not make the author look foolish, just slow. Actually the author is using the wrong technique if he is trying to swat the fly. Flies use their compound eyes and a collection of sensitive hairs on their bodies to detect threats and avoid being swatted. You can use this to your advantage. When the fly lands on something…

I use a much simpler technique which seems to work for me a similar amount of time. When you clap your hands together, move them up vertically as well as toward each other. Whatever other games they play, the fly will always move upward first.

Yeah this is the real one. If a fly is flying, aim a few inches above it with an overarm throw kinda move, you can grab them out of the air with enough practise. Decent party trick.

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#39

Post by bowsamic » Mon, May 16, 2022, 11:33 AM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #37

bowsamic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Buddhism we might say, the immense complexity of emptiness, or the dharmakaya

Quoted post unavailable.

The Buddha didn't say he was coming back. The Buddha said that there would be a future Buddha at some point: Maitreya. That could be many thousands of years away.

In Buddhism we forsake God, we explicitly reject Him. We reject all creation, and embrace only the dark: emptiness, in which all things are fundamentally non-distinct.

Re: How I Started to See Trees as Smart

#40

Post by chahex » Mon, May 16, 2022, 11:40 AM UTC

Calling it an “altered state” might be normal but misleading. Maybe what has really been altered is the state we call “normal”. Nonetheless, Itzak Bentov would probably describe it as a more evolved state, an Indian Yogi May call it “Samadhi” and according to Sadhguru JV Yoga means “Union”, a sense of unity with all that is or “Law Of One”, this is actually a most normal state for people who claimed to have realized... and this is not about being an atheist or not this is about the learned belief and probably also the choice of “separation” and the final discovery of the fact that matter is consciousness, and consciousness is matter