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Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

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201–210 of 264 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#201
signals. When communicating in real life i'm inundated by other signals... body language, perceived status, intelligents, gender etc.

Online, I'm arguing/conversing/telling jokes with text. there is very little other signal getting in the way. also a large degree of online conversation happens with the voice in my head. My output comes from essentially arguing with myself.

My witt it's mostly sarcy, with heavy play on words. Because thats whats its like inside my head.

My arguing a point will be transactional and I try to be logical but my love of Monty Python influences my out put fairly heavily.

etc etc. its about signal to noise, but not just for the amount of signal, but how the noise changes the pitch and perceived value of the signal.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#202
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be assuming that we don't enforce HN's rules. We do enforce the rules, but only on the posts we see. We don't see every post—there are too many. You, or anyone, can help by flagging posts that break the site guidelines, and in egregious cases by emailing hn@ycombinator.com.

Flagging goes both ways. There's a flagged post in this account's short history where I pushed back on a transphobic comment. Now various comments up from mine and down another branch are all flagged. Transphobic and anti-transphobic comments are all flagged to oblivion. Probably the hope is that there are more nice people than not-nice people so on the whole the not-nice comments will disappear. From that one experi…

For sure flagging goes both ways on political/ideological flamewars. How could it be otherwise? That's not what HN is for.

The thing to do with egregious comments is not to feed them by replying, but to flag them (and in particularly bad cases, to email hn@ycombinator.com to make sure we see it).

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#204
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be assuming that we don't enforce HN's rules. We do enforce the rules, but only on the posts we see. We don't see every post—there are too many. You, or anyone, can help by flagging posts that break the site guidelines, and in egregious cases by emailing hn@ycombinator.com.

Do you maintain metrics on the ratio of flagged posts or comments to those you take action on? Or categorize why such posts are flagged/removed? I've only ever heard you say "trust us, we do this," but I can speak from experience that I have personally flagged some posts and comments that end up remaining anyway. This is, of course, your site and you can moderate it as you please, but the quality of participation has…

I fear that a reply like this can come across as dismissive, but you have to understand that people have been saying that the quality of HN has been falling ever since HN started 15 years ago. There's a strong bias (if not several biases combining) to feel like it's always getting worse. Since people are saying this all the time, it's hard to give much weight to a bare statement along those lines. Positive generalizations aren't that different, btw. The main thing I've learned is that everybody overgeneralizes. Most likely we're hard-wired for it.

Because of that, specific examples actually carry more weight. The case you're describing sounds like someone it is really bad for HN to lose. But I'd need to see links.

Internet forums are super weird and there are limits to what one can do about it. I wish it weren't so. The way that large online group dynamics interact with individual psychology is bizarre, and often leaves people feeling wounded and aghast (I've tried writing about this a few times, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098 or - using a somewhat melodramatic metaphor - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...).

It's easy to imagine that the admins should just "get serious about cleaning up this place", until you realize that different users have completely contradictory images of what that would involve, most of which aren't well-defined enough to be doable in the first place. And that's not even the hard problem! The hard problem is that what people experience is the product of a small number of external datapoints and a large number of internal ones.

p.s. I don't think we have a guideline against saying that HN's quality is dropping?

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#205
In an online discussion it's easy for me to voice my opinion, and deal with the consequences. People are idiots, but I don't need to let it affect me online.

If I voice my opinion in real life, and I'm with the wrong person, the situation can go South really quickly. So I shut up and be non-political IRL.

PS: I'm saying this as a progressive leftist, as well.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#206

For in-person discussions, we should probably factor in the nature and depth of the relationship. For example, if I'm just chatting with someone at the park, I don't expect them to welcome a serious critique of views they espouse. But if I've known that person for a long time, and we're invested in each other, then I'm more likely to challenge or at least discuss touchy matters. Internet discussions, depending on the…

but online the relationship has the reverse effect.

if i know someone in person, or at least have developed a deeper online relationship (through remote collaboration for example) i am going to treat time like i would in person, whereas if i don't know them as i don't know you it becomes much easier to say "you are wrong!" because i don't have to fear your negative reaction. as you say here, anonymity allows for a certain boldness

i occasionally find my self starting a comment on hn with "that's wrong" but once i write the actual explanation i realize that i can make my point without that aggressive lead, so i remove it. and then i go over the text and see where i can reduce the boldness without weakening my argument, for example by prefacing statements with i feel or i believe or i understand instead of stating them as absolutes or indisputable facts.

but this is usually a second editing step that i have to consciously think about. though maybe after doing it often enough, it can become a habit or second nature to my writing

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#207
post #64

For in-person discussions, we should probably factor in the nature and depth of the relationship. For example, if I'm just chatting with someone at the park, I don't expect them to welcome a serious critique of views they espouse. But if I've known that person for a long time, and we're invested in each other, then I'm more likely to challenge or at least discuss touchy matters. Internet discussions, depending on the…

There's also the fact that when you're online there's a zero risk of being punched in the face when you say something the other person is likely to find unpleasant.

i would not go that far. just the risk of putting you into a grumpy mood is deterrent enough. who wants to sit next to a grumpy person for the rest of dinner for example?

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#208
post #64

For in-person discussions, we should probably factor in the nature and depth of the relationship. For example, if I'm just chatting with someone at the park, I don't expect them to welcome a serious critique of views they espouse. But if I've known that person for a long time, and we're invested in each other, then I'm more likely to challenge or at least discuss touchy matters. Internet discussions, depending on the…

There's also the fact that when you're online there's a zero risk of being punched in the face when you say something the other person is likely to find unpleasant.

It seems like a lot of internet internet comments think physical violence is a near unthinkable action to respond to non physical violence with and a lot of others think most people are a couple sentence exchange away from getting punched in the face.

Re: Ask HN: Why are people in real life so different?

#209
post #206

For in-person discussions, we should probably factor in the nature and depth of the relationship. For example, if I'm just chatting with someone at the park, I don't expect them to welcome a serious critique of views they espouse. But if I've known that person for a long time, and we're invested in each other, then I'm more likely to challenge or at least discuss touchy matters. Internet discussions, depending on the…

but online the relationship has the reverse effect. if i know someone in person, or at least have developed a deeper online relationship (through remote collaboration for example) i am going to treat time like i would in person, whereas if i don't know them as i don't know you it becomes much easier to say "you are wrong!" because i don't have to fear your negative reaction. as you say here, anonymity allows for a ce…

The difference is danger. The internet, when you are safe and sound in your home saying what ever shit you want with close to zero chance of getting punched in the face for it. Talking to someone on the street is different, you mouth off and there is a high chance you will get beaten, thus we are more polite.

This is 2 dogs interacting but my thoughts are that it is similiar. In this metaphore the internet is the gate.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=goRogFQWkZU

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