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Human genetic engineering is coming

theglobeandmail.com

21–30 of 91 posts

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article I learned that there is "somatic gene editing, a therapeutic application of CRISPR administered by injection to consenting subjects", as well as "germline editing, in which changes are made to the DNA of an embryo". The author is concerned by the latter and I think you describe the former.

I think I would be okay with germline editing too, in selected cases. It's not like a child is going to say "hey, thanks for not fixing my cancer-causing mutation when you had the chance, mum".

Then you have less qualms about it than the author of the article, whose career would benefit a lot from a free-for-all.

"The social and political implications of gene editing are also huge unknowns, and unfortunately there’s been scant debate among policy makers and the general public."

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#23

This may seem like a controversial opinion, but I think that it's a good development. Some people have lost the "genetic lottery" in ways that make them dependent on medication. And for some, it may block career options, such as color vision deficiencies. We should embrace it, instead of painting dystopian scenarios. At least, we shouldn't stop people from fixing problems that they were unfairly born with.

Agree.

A lot of this "controversial" stuff isn't ie therapeutic cures for sickle cell, a single nucleotide mutation with devastating impact on quality of life.

For some like myself with CDH1(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDH1_(gene)) it means a total gastrectomy is the prophylactic solution to avoiding hereditary diffuse stomach cancer. CDH1 is a more complex mutation than sickle cell.

These technologies are capable of doing more good than harm for society in the near term. The dystopian visions are not without merit, but that's the general rule of thumb for technology in general. A loss of genetic diversity is likely the gravest concern. Some mutations have benefit ie sickle cell vs malaria, but others like CDH1 have mostly been slipping under the evolutionary radar. There are multiple variants of concern and the mutation is just independently occurring across the global human population irrespective of any special heritage. There are other cancers/maladies just like this that medicine has no good solution for. They don't noticeably impede genetic reproduction so it carries from generation to generation.

For now most sane people are not considering germ-line modification. I would expect that to require multiple generations of study to even broach the subject.

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we stop improving?

Who defines improvement?

A dictionary, I guess?

I don't see what's so hard about it. When something gets better than it used to be, that's an improvement. Better eyesight, hearing, intelligence, endurance, strength, etc etc - improvements.

I won't get into any argument that "less is more". I don't believe that crap. We shouldn't stop until we find the limits of the universe.

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#26

This may seem like a controversial opinion, but I think that it's a good development. Some people have lost the "genetic lottery" in ways that make them dependent on medication. And for some, it may block career options, such as color vision deficiencies. We should embrace it, instead of painting dystopian scenarios. At least, we shouldn't stop people from fixing problems that they were unfairly born with.

You say that but most of the ways that humans would want fixing have already been readily implemented via surgery. Between boobjobs, HGH, limb-lengthening surgery, hair transplants, and even labiaplasty, there’s very little you can’t fix on your body today. My fear is that extremist groups and governments will use this tech to change children according to their religious or extremist doctrine. Stuff like growing wome…

Nonsense. There's no surgery in the world which would make me lose my allergies and eczema problems, but a few edited genes before birth might just do the trick.

Or an acquaintance of mine with cystic fibrosis, who's been in and out of hospital for the vast majority of her life and knows that she probably won't make it beyond 40; she definitely wouldn't mind if someone fixed those mutations before she was born.

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#27

epigenetic alterations which is very similar to genetic alterations are already trivial to achieve for anyone right now. It's not that it is coming, it has been there for decades. Despite popular belief, people don't care about transhumanism/gerontology, more generally people can't care about things that require more than their very limited attention span.

Can you elaborate on that? If it's "trivial to achieve for anyone right now", what does that mean? Is there any commercially available service?

An epigenetic alteration is a multiplier on the expression of a gene. it can either inhibit its expression or increase its expression, in a continuum like manner, and remarkably, in a tissue/cell specific manner. A complete inhibition is akin to a gene removal, behaviourally speaking and indeed there can be many synergies between multiples altered genes expressions. The effects of an epigenetic alteration usually last 6 month although some consequences of the alteration might in some contextes be permanent.

Of course the main drug class for this are peptides.

An example being melatonan 2, which activate melanin in a continuous like, dose dependent manner. so you can progressively darken your skin https://alchetron.com/cdn/melanotan-ii-d26dbedd-94fb-434a-8d...

if abused, you can become ultrablack https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/08/15/04/2B6033FA000005... this change is permanent.

now there are much more useful peptides out there, for example: thymalin, the thymus hormone, is revolutionnary as it reverse thymus involution. Thymus involution is the main programmed aging factor, which leads to your death as an evolutionnary advantage. I have discussed this topic enough the last week so I won't go into details here. just so you know thymalin rejuvenate the thymus and increase lymphocite T naive cells production by up to 680% which totally fix immunodepression in the edlerdly and e.g. fix covid since day 1 (would have avoided 15 million deaths were people litterate) or reduce all cause mortality in humans by 410% when coadministarted with epitalon,

epitalon allow your cells to bypass the hayflick limit (maximum number of divisions). It also rejuvenate the pineal gland and therefore fix age related sleep issues.

BPC-157 significantly accelerate the time it takes for a physical injury to resorb. It is also unique in it's tendon rejenerative properties, its angiogenesis superior to VEGF, neuromodulation and its effect on IBS.

cortexin/cerebrosylin are potently nootropics and neuroprotective. Rethinalamin rejuvenate the eyes which can un-blind people in some conditions, e.g. solve glaucoma and macular degeneration.

PNC-27 is one of the most interesting peptide, since it is basically the best cure against cancer e.g. https://touroscholar.touro.edu/sjlcas/vol13/iss2/7/

there is an unlimited potential for peptides, many "incurable" diseases have seen peptides specifically made for them and acts as effective cures (e.g. multiple sclerosis), however for the most part their potential is untapped, the reason being that this tech is endogenously produced in the human body, which make them unpatentable, which makes them unlucrative and since public research clinical trials are inexistant, you will never see them massively adopted, unless by accident.

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I would be okay with germline editing too, in selected cases. It's not like a child is going to say "hey, thanks for not fixing my cancer-causing mutation when you had the chance, mum".

Then you have less qualms about it than the author of the article, whose career would benefit a lot from a free-for-all. "The social and political implications of gene editing are also huge unknowns, and unfortunately there’s been scant debate among policy makers and the general public."

Personally I think both are true.

There are a lot of genetic defects we can engineer away. There’s a lot of other things that aren’t defects, but social pressure will make people want to engineer them away.

For example, when I was a child, British tabloids were saying “Abortion hope after ‘gay genes’ finding”: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/08/30/gay-gene-newspapers-19...

(Bonus points as the gay gene didn’t really exist; but as I’m bi, people like that would’ve tried to eradicate me before I was born if they’d had a way to do so).

As I expect my resistance to social pressure to be exactly average until shown otherwise, I sometimes find myself wondering what things I falsely believe to be real defects that would be moral to eradicate.

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#29

It is coming, but too slowly. Everyone, including people itt, gesture vaguely towards "ethical considerations", without being able to specify what they are and how they outweigh the massive ethical benefits. >I expect that human genetic engineering, both therapeutic and “vanity” applications, will become an unfathomably profitable industry in the coming decades. The most important application, by far, dwarfing both t…

I've long wondered what the result of superintelligence would be. Mostly artificial but human superintelligence would be interesting too.

Re: Human genetic engineering is coming

#30
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we stop improving?

Who defines improvement?

Improvement is just when you make a change and you subjectively think the positives outweigh the negatives.

If the negatives subjectively don't outweigh the positives, that's usually considered "deal with the devil" territory and is the kind of thing sci-fi writers love.

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