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Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#111

Post by leokennis »

Fwirt wrote: post #75
rixrax wrote: post #59

I feel that the AV-receiver market has gone the way of the DSLR market. Compact speaker systems like Sonos (that don't need a separate AVR) simply got good enough. Thus the need for buying a separate AVR to drive your Dolby / DTS / etc. setup has all but vanished except maybe for the most determined audiophiles (and even most of these would do well to simply get a compact wireless speaker setup instead of some monstr…

It all comes down to demand I guess... Most people seem to like Beats headphones or think their Airpods have top quality sound and don't care that $200 headphones exist that blow them out of the water. Most people use bluetooth with low quality codecs that distort the sound. In addition, most people listen to their music on streaming services that compress the heck out of tracks that are already heavily (dynamic rang…

I’ve been a headphone mid-fi buyer for at least 15 years now (think Denon AH-D2000, B&W P5 etc.) and it’s just also the case that lower-fi audio has greatly improved.

The sound quality AirPods or the Samsung buds deliver are simply very very competent for the price. They’re good sounding, convenient, dependable.

Contrast to the crap you used to get included with your iPod or the entry level IEM’s that were 99% bass and 100% ear pain and snapped cables.

It’s not that people enjoy crap these days. It’s just that previously you needed to spend Onkyo levels of money to get decent sound, and these days a lot less.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#112

Post by layer8 »

otterley wrote: post #108
layer8 wrote: post #92

One reason I stopped buying Onkyo AVRs is that they don’t have a good room correction system like e.g. Audyssey or Dirac. Edit: Apparently Onkyo caught up at some point, but at the time I switched away from them they were lagging behind regarding room correction.

Oh wow! I had an Onkyo AVR that did have Audyssey (TX-SR508), but I guess they stopped putting it into later models awhile ago. They replaced it with something called AccuEQ which some reviewers say works just fine. I personally switched over to Denon AVRs when it became time to upgrade.

I believe Onkyo never had Audyssey XT32 (which is the Audyssey version you really want), only an older Audyssey version (2Eq). Onky never even had MultiEq? (not sure)

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#113

Post by layer8 »

7speter wrote: post #99
layer8 wrote: post #92

One reason I stopped buying Onkyo AVRs is that they don’t have a good room correction system like e.g. Audyssey or Dirac. Edit: Apparently Onkyo caught up at some point, but at the time I switched away from them they were lagging behind regarding room correction.

> … Audyssey or Dirac Gotta remember these names for when I can afford a good audio system…

There’s also Trinnov, but it’s outrageously expensive.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#114

Post by dagw »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #62
rixrax wrote: post #59

I feel that the AV-receiver market has gone the way of the DSLR market. Compact speaker systems like Sonos (that don't need a separate AVR) simply got good enough. Thus the need for buying a separate AVR to drive your Dolby / DTS / etc. setup has all but vanished except maybe for the most determined audiophiles (and even most of these would do well to simply get a compact wireless speaker setup instead of some monstr…

Are there any of those compact speaker systems that actually sound good, though?

Are there any $15 wines that taste good or $500 DSLRs that can shoot good video footage or $50 dress shirts that look good? For most people the answer is obviously yes, and for some the answer is obviously no. And the one group will never convince the other group that they are wrong.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#115

Post by codefreeordie »

pbronez wrote: post #44
codefreeordie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The middle of the market is actually all messy generally these days. The very high end wants systems that feel like current systems, but if you want something in the middle, you don't actually really want the awkwardness associated with having an audio system today. A system of passive speakers, an amplifier or two, and the complexities of the user interface (I can't hear the TV, which of these three remotes do I nee…

There are products there… plenty of good powered monitors available. Some of them have integrated DAC with an optical, line and USB inputs. Those are pretty easy to connect to a TV or whatever. I’m actually hacking on a project to make it easier to sift through all this stuff. The work that Audio Science Review and a (very) few others are pumping out some great objective data on audio equipment performance. My goal i…

These do exist, but they're not really marketed to the mainstream home theater market.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#116

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

initplus wrote: post #96
Fwirt wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all comes down to demand I guess... Most people seem to like Beats headphones or think their Airpods have top quality sound and don't care that $200 headphones exist that blow them out of the water. Most people use bluetooth with low quality codecs that distort the sound. In addition, most people listen to their music on streaming services that compress the heck out of tracks that are already heavily (dynamic rang…

Streaming services don't compress dynamic range, rather the opposite - because every streaming service employs loudness normalization the loudness wars have largely ended. Compressing your track to hell in an effort to get it to sound louder doesn't work anymore because every streaming service will just normalize it anyway. Spotify at least uses 320kbps vorbis for their "high quality" setting which is at the point wh…

> Compressing your track to hell in an effort to get it to sound louder doesn't work anymore because every streaming service will just normalize it anyway.

This is a bit of confused remark. "Normalization" means applying some constant gain factor to the signal so that the loudest level is 0dBFS. Compression applies a varying gain factor to the signal to meet some parameters. Normalizing audio will generally make it louder (unless the loudest level is already at 0dBFS), but it does not change the dynamic range of the signal. The "loudness wars" were all about using compression, and this does change the dynamic range of the signal (you end up with less difference between the quietest and loudest parts of the signal - hence the term compression).

You can still "sound louder" by using compression, even if the peak volume is still 0dBFS.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#117

Post by christoph »

leokennis wrote: post #102
rob74 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem though - the people who treat "listening to music" as an activity of its own are getting fewer and fewer. I listen to a lot of music, but I mostly do it while commuting, while programming etc., not in the living room. I even have a good old stereo that's served me well for over 20 years now (Sony, not Onkyo), but it mostly only serves as better PC speakers nowadays. I still play a CD on it occasion…

I think “listening to music as an activity” and “buying, tweaking and upgrading expensive audio setups” are two separate activities that often overlap but do not require each other. As an example, I fiercely enjoy sitting on my couch with my eyes closed listening to full albums of the White Stripes or Stars of the Lid or Boards of Canada or Sufjan Stevens on my AirPods Max, streamed via Bluetooth from my iPhone. Ever…

It’s exactly this. “Audiophiles” are a weird bunch. Much of what they claim to hear is scientifically proven as total nonsense. Audio Science Review is a great place where they scientifically analyse audio equipment. The quality of speaker wire for all meaningful measurements is utterly irrelevant for instance.

Realistically, as long as you are enjoying the art, how you are enjoying it should be irrelevant.

I often make the point to people that a terrible movie will be terrible no matter how you watch it - HDR, 4K, Atmos won’t make a difference. A crappy movie, will always be a crappy movie.

The same with music, and inversely - a great song will still sound great and enjoyable on a really crappy car stereo.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#118

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

layer8 wrote: post #92

One reason I stopped buying Onkyo AVRs is that they don’t have a good room correction system like e.g. Audyssey or Dirac. Edit: Apparently Onkyo caught up at some point, but at the time I switched away from them they were lagging behind regarding room correction.

Onkyo has had Audyssey for quite som time and current models have Dirac.

Re: Japanese audio brand Onkyo files for bankruptcy

#120

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

layer8 wrote: post #112
otterley wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow! I had an Onkyo AVR that did have Audyssey (TX-SR508), but I guess they stopped putting it into later models awhile ago. They replaced it with something called AccuEQ which some reviewers say works just fine. I personally switched over to Denon AVRs when it became time to upgrade.

I believe Onkyo never had Audyssey XT32 (which is the Audyssey version you really want), only an older Audyssey version (2Eq). Onky never even had MultiEq? (not sure)

TX-NR3009 have XT32, there should be older models as well
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