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Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

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Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#371

Post by shepardrtc »

capitalsigma wrote: post #122
phenthrowAway wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To anyone curious about phenibut: Don't. Just don't. Please. Just a few weeks of usage can cause dependence. It is notorious for causing compulsive redosing. Withdrawal can make you unable to sleep for days, with lingering effects like panic attacks and anhedonia for weeks and weeks. Withdrawal from larger quantities can cause auditory and visual hallucinations and seizures and can even KILL you. Avoiding serious sym…

I take phenibut about 1x/week, I have been for about 2 years now. I think it's generally pretty OK for me, though I've started to worry that it impacts my memory a touch, at the edges. Do not take drugs every day. For real. I don't want to victim-blame but it is wild that you expected to be able to be able to take drugs daily for weeks without withdrawals. As a rule of thumb, unless you intend to be on it forever (e.…

> I take phenibut about 1x/week, I have been for about 2 years now. I think it's generally pretty OK for me, though I've started to worry that it impacts my memory a touch, at the edges.

You're addicted, you just don't know it.

> it is wild that you expected to be able to be able to take drugs daily for weeks without withdrawals

If you're referring to benzos, the doctor said it would be fine. If you're referring to phenibut, I wasn't taking it every day. Maybe every few days or maybe once a week.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#372

Post by shepardrtc »

mckirk wrote: post #150
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's frightening. I tried it out recently and didn't really feel anything that would get me hooked on it but maybe that's naive.

My advice: Don't underestimate the substance, but also don't give too much importance to stories of people that overdid it and had a terrible time. People have been using Phenibut for long periods of time without getting dependent -- provided they space out the "Phenibut days" enough. Of course that requires some self-knowledge: If you are the kind of person who would have trouble keeping it to "not more than twice a…

If you have "Phenibut days", you're addicted. You may space it out, but your body is adjusting to it being in your system. It is that absolutely powerful. I was like you before things got bad.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#374

Post by shepardrtc »

opportune wrote: post #160
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

Did you tell your doctor you were taking phenibut when they prescribed you benzos? It seems like something you definitely shouldn't mix. I completely agree that benzos are bad news unless you truly need them. In my relatively uneducated opinion, I don't think they should be a first-line treatment and it's kind of a joke that they're considered schedule 4 (at least compared to things that are schedule 2 - I don't thin…

> Did you tell your doctor you were taking phenibut when they prescribed you benzos?

I mentioned it the old doctor, but they didn't know much about it. The newer doctor researched it and was horrified by it.

Mixing them is terrible and should be avoided at all costs.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#375

Post by shepardrtc »

jnovek wrote: post #366
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

“I once went three days without sleep.” This is just a side note, but I’ve never heard of anything like this happening before with such a short course of benzos. That doesn’t mean it’s not happening, and it doesn’t mean that it’s not the benzos, but because it’s an unusual outcome, have you considered looking into other possible causes? You were taking the benzos for sleep, after all, could a different underlying cau…

It was two 15mg Temazepam capsules every night. Temazepam is a very powerful benzo. One night I actually took 60mg total without understanding what I was doing. So its very different from a Xanax, which is what people usually think of when they think of benzos.

Anxiety was the underlying cause of all of this, and I was dealing with a lot of stuff in life at the time that was causing me anxiety. So yes, it wasn't just the benzos and the phenibut. My body simply couldn't handle any anxiety and I was putting myself in situations that caused it.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#376

Post by shepardrtc »

loeg wrote: post #149
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons. I don't care how safe the doctors say they are; they aren't. Period. Do you ever wonder if maybe something about your situation might be different from most other people prescribed benzos? For example, the concurrent phenibut use.

> Do you ever wonder if maybe something about your situation might be different from most other people prescribed benzos? For example, the concurrent phenibut use

Absolutely, but benzos are a temporary fix regardless of anything else. They can't fix underlying causes. Obviously people can pop a xanax every once in a while and not go crazy like me, but if you're doing that, perhaps you should look into other treatments like modern SSRI's.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#377

Post by shepardrtc »

erichmond wrote: post #246
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

First, I want to acknowledge your situation so I don't want to belittle what you went through in any way, but I had a catastrophic series of events happen in my life almost 9 years ago, and Xanax was literally a life saver for me. Taking the Xanax allowed to me relax enough to do the work to figure out how to relax naturally. Before the Xanax I was having crippling panic attacks 24/7. My only point is, you're a data…

I'm glad they worked for you. And yes, in extreme cases, yes, a relatively mild benzo like Xanax can really help. But doctor's give them out like candy and people don't really understand what's happening when you take them so they keep taking them. I give out that warning just to be safe because most people don't research things enough.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#378

Post by shepardrtc »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #235
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons. You tell people having a panic attack not to take a sublingual benzodiazepine?

A panic attack is not a normal reaction. There's an underlying cause to them, and I tell people that they should get that treated. Benzos are a temporary fix.

A friend of mine has panic attacks all the time. He should be on SSRI's but refuses because his anxiety is telling him that they'll destroy him. Can't do any worse than his existing anxiety though.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#379

Post by shepardrtc »

EricMausler wrote: post #308
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

>There were months where I maybe got an hour or two of sleep a night. I feel like this is very easy to gloss over while reading, but in actuality is quite an intense experience to have gone through. This would drive me actually insane, I don't know how to coped with it

It was utter torment. I had to run a team at work all the while. I was able to do it, but only through sheer willpower. I had to constantly reiterate to myself what was happening and the timeline for it to be over to be able to deal with it. It increased my mental toughness dramatically. My life is actually much better now because of the entire experience.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#380

Post by shepardrtc »

throwaway23324 wrote: post #183
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

I have to disagree with the "any reasons" part. First is if it's a psychiatric emergency administered by a nurse for psychosis but I doubt we're really talking about that. But I think they're a valid last-resort treatment for panic attacks if we're talking less then twice a month-ish range. Reason being is that they will reliably work every time, and for many people including myself just knowing we have it can preven…

> But you still need to be treating your anxiety with therapy and/or other medications (but especially therapy) - its only a last resort.

Most people ignore this part.

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