You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#391

Post by edanm » Sun, May 15, 2022, 1:36 AM UTC

stjohnswarts wrote: post #381

jimmydoreornot wrote: post #232

While correct and useful advice for some people, this advice is useless for many (I suspect most) overweight and obese people. I'm on the border of overweight/obese. I can lose weight if I focus on losing weight. I've dropped from 100kg to 74kg and back. I've gone back down to 91kg and back. How? Eating less, of course. By counting calories. But here is the problem. Anything below 95kg and my body and mind is hyper a…

Yes, 75% of the diet is psychology and not calories-in-calories-out. Obviously CICO is a thing inasmuch as it's a thermodynamic process. Those people who parrot it though aren't really using their brain and are trying to simplify a complex human process down to "eat less". Nutrition in humans is complex and psychology is more important than other factors (assuming you don't really have some limiting health issue). Th…

> Obviously CICO is a thing inasmuch as it's a thermodynamic process. Those people who parrot it though aren't really using their brain and are trying to simplify a complex human process down to "eat less".

Speaking for myself, the reason I often parrot the Cico advice is because it's become "common knowledge" that Cico is wrong, which is ridiculous.

Three years ago I would parrot all the usual anti Cico talking points, about how human fat gain is far more complex, there are good calories vs bad calories, hormone response matters, etc. Then when learning more about this, I eventually understood that really, if I count calories and start eating less, I'd lose weight.

I'm not f that explicitly counting calories is the correct strategy for everyone to create a caloric deficit. Your points are absolutely valid.

But after I lost weight, I've had multiple conversations with people insisting that the only thing that could work is cutting out carbs, or only eating meat, or intermittent fasting, etc. Those are great strategies to try, but it's fundamental to understand that they're only strategies to induce that caloric deficit. Otherwise you are setting up for eventual failure.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#392

Post by birksherty » Sun, May 15, 2022, 1:46 AM UTC

csours wrote: post #73

I weigh 350 pounds. I'm very obese. I know this. When I was a teenager, I looked at people who weighed 300+ pounds and though, how do you get that way. Don't you realize that you are gaining weight? Don't you know that you just have to eat less to lose weight? Anyway, now I realize that I am hungry. It never goes away unless I eat a significant amount of food. My body told me to eat, so I ate. It doesn't even take th…

It's depends on habit. People are not used to being actually in empty stomach since childhood.

Eating all the time makes our brain want food all the time. I did intermittent fasting and now I'm completely okay not eating during that time. For other times it becomes easy, after not eating like before.

The food doesn't have to be calorie heavy. Replace with meat, nuts, vegetable, fruits (not juice).

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#393

Post by birksherty » Sun, May 15, 2022, 1:50 AM UTC

jimmydoreornot wrote: post #232

While correct and useful advice for some people, this advice is useless for many (I suspect most) overweight and obese people. I'm on the border of overweight/obese. I can lose weight if I focus on losing weight. I've dropped from 100kg to 74kg and back. I've gone back down to 91kg and back. How? Eating less, of course. By counting calories. But here is the problem. Anything below 95kg and my body and mind is hyper a…

> Why do some people's bodies/minds insist so insistently that they eat more when they clearly are already overweight? That's the question I would love to have answered.

Pretty sure it's habit. Eating calorie all the time makes our brain want that food all the time. People are not used to being actually in empty stomach since their childhood. I did intermittent fasting and now I'm completely okay not eating during that time. For other times it becomes easy, after not eating like before.

The food doesn't have to be calorie heavy either. Replace with meat, nuts, vegetable, fruits (not juice).

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#394

Post by edanm » Sun, May 15, 2022, 1:57 AM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #378

csours wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was raised in a family that used food treats as a reward. It was normal to have ice cream and cookies a few times a week. To be clear, I wasn't obese until after I moved out on my own, but part of the pattern was set. I was raised in America where we are told that we can 'have it all'. If you don't order the large portion, people wonder what is wrong with you. I'm not blaming my situation on these factors, but I do…

> If you don't order the large portion, people wonder what is wrong with you. I think if 'order the large' is an option, you're already ordering from a takeaway/in a 'junk food' place.

True, but it's worth realizing a few things:

1. It's ok to eat some "junk food" as part of your diet. That's not going to automatically kill your diet, if you still control calories. It might not be as satiating as eating other foods though, so it's worth experimenting with this. (personally I would still eat "junk food" on my diet and I enjoyed the extra flexibility).

2. Just cause you're eating junk food, since calories is what ultimately matters, it's still worth not ordering the large. Saying " well it's junk food I'm already lost" and then eating a larger portion is just making the sustain much worse than it needs to be.

3. Similarly, just cause it's a junk food place, doesn't mean there aren't better or worse options. I love McDonald's, and still eat there even when dieting to lose weight. But I'll eat only chicken nuggets, and skip the fries. Not nearly as good or healthy as eating other sources of protein, but definitely better than including an extra 500 calories of non satiating carbs.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#395

Post by blobbers » Sun, May 15, 2022, 2:09 AM UTC

stjohnswarts wrote: post #386

blobbers wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try to take a period of reprograming, where you just stick with it. Also consider a detox. Get all the garbage you don't want to eat out of the house, and insist on not buying it. Whenever you get a craving, just go drink water instead. Lastly, consider carnivore or alternate day fasting. You can get there, if you want to.

I just want to add that a "detox" as a holistic medicine approach is total bullshit. If you're talking about hitting reset on what you have in your house then that's different. That's just getting rid of temptation.

Yeah detox your house.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#396

Post by blobbers » Sun, May 15, 2022, 2:11 AM UTC

jimmydoreornot wrote: post #339

keybored wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you haven’t tried low-carb: low-carb is supposed to go well with intermittent fasting and fasting because of the effect it has on your insulin.

Yes I need to seriously try low-carb. BTW, I have (controlled) hypertension, (controlled) high cholesterol, high triglycerides, low HDLs, and a large beer belly gut (just like my dad, but unlike my brother)... but I have hba1c on the low end and high insulin sensitivity. Doctors used to insist I was on the path to diabetes (25 years ago), but now they are mystified. I chalk it up in part to fasting and drinking a lot…

Would recommend you all check out Dr. Jason Fung.

Alternate day eating etc.

He's a nephrologist that works to control diabetes.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#397

Post by ThrowITout4321 » Sun, May 15, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

stjohnswarts wrote: post #389

ThrowITout4321 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told that the reason carbs are such a problem is that once metabolized into glucose the body has to produce insulin to balance the blood sugar. Eventually this process makes us hungry especially if we eat too many carbs. One way to reduce the affect of excess carbs is to follow a low glycemic diet similar to what people with diabetes follow. You might want to look into it.

The basic theory is that humans never evolved to handle the sheer amount (at least, a lot of us can't) of simple carbs and sugars that modern life makes available to us via a “typical” diet. The sheer amount of insulin that is needed to handle that much sugar in the bloodstream is constantly pumping, the body builds up a tolerance to it, which in turn stresses the pancreas. That can lead to pre-diabetes and diabetes,…

We should learn from ranchers. The fastest way to fatten livestock is to feed them carbs. So you see ranchers feeding cattle sugar bi-products that can't be sold to humans. Carbs will fatten you(us) up.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#398

Post by edanm » Sun, May 15, 2022, 2:15 AM UTC

voisin wrote: post #371

mattlondon wrote: post #131

This article is quite accurate I think. I use MyFitnessPal on and off. It is easy - you just scan the barcode and it tots up the calories. MFP is excellent at making you face up to what you are actually eating. At first it was a huge eye-opener for how many calories were in everyday things - like a slice of bread is 80-120 calories etc. The article mentions fruit juice too - that was a big one for me as well. I figur…

> you just scan the barcode and it tots up the calories. A good tule of thumb is to minimize the number of things you eat with barcodes.

Err, I use MFP as well and I don't know what you're talking about.

Barcodes aren't only for whole meals, they're also food ingredients. When I cook at home, most of the stuff that goes into the recipe has a barcode.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#399

Post by stevebmark » Sun, May 15, 2022, 2:31 AM UTC

lmariscal wrote: post #384

stevebmark wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counting calories may not be correct and useful advice for most people. It ignores what the calories do in your body. As an absurd example, sand is very calorically dense, and you'll lose a lot of weight and then die if it's all you eat. Telling people they "eat too much" is usually ineffective, it just makes people feel bad that they can't tolerate hunger. Ketosis will work (it's very low carb, not zero carb). You (…

What is this answer? Are you being serious comparing eating actual sand to caloric dense food? Obviously calories aren't everything in terms of diet and health; vitamins, nutrients and other parts come into play. But when it comes down to actual physical weight, nothing else matters, unless you have a medical problem. Learning how calories work and counting them for some time, so you understand what you are actually…

Saying that people gain weight because they consume more energy than they expend is both obvious and too blunt to be useful for weight loss. The same caloric intake of protein, carbohydrates, fat, fiber, preservates, sand, poison, all act differently in your body. You can lose weight in a caloric surplus diet and gain weight in a caloric deficit diet. One fun paradox is some people who train for marathons gain body fat.

I don't have the answer. Ketosis is an example of a weight loss diet where you don't have to count calories, since the body switches into fat burning / fat cell releasing mode by default. Veganism, which starves the body of fat required for normal operation (hormones, celular function), depletes fat stores to use for these functions, and also causes weight loss without having to count calories.

One of the most important things is probably to focus on eating whole foods over processed foods. I'd also consider that fat is more satiating than carbohydrates and protein. One overfeeding study wasn't successful because they couldn't get the fat-eating group to over eat, their bodies stopped them. I'd also consider the glycemic index of foods, since insulin is the signaler to the endothelium receptor to pull excess glucose from the blood into the cells to store as fat.

Re: You're Not Losing Fat Because You're Eating Too Damn Much (2016)

#400

Post by gaganyaan » Sun, May 15, 2022, 2:40 AM UTC

xurukefi wrote: post #278

jimmydoreornot wrote: post #232

While correct and useful advice for some people, this advice is useless for many (I suspect most) overweight and obese people. I'm on the border of overweight/obese. I can lose weight if I focus on losing weight. I've dropped from 100kg to 74kg and back. I've gone back down to 91kg and back. How? Eating less, of course. By counting calories. But here is the problem. Anything below 95kg and my body and mind is hyper a…

It's genetics. I think it's called the set point theory. You're genetically programmed to keep a certain body fat percentage. Anything below (or above) that set point and you're body will regulate your appetite with hormones. You can manipulate this set point with things like diet or exercise, but there is only so much you can do. If you're genetically programmed to keep a body fat percentage of 25% for example you'r…

The set point theory, in general, is trash.

You can think of your body as wanting to maintain homeostasis, which is one thing. That just means that if you binge once, you won't feel the need to continue binging at that level. It does not mean that anyone is genetically predetermined to be say 600 lbs.

To use that terminology though, your body could be said to have a "set point" that it aims for, but that "set point" can change. Nobody is destined to be fat, and if you lose weight, your "set point" will adjust.