Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing with most addictions is that as long as you are taking a substance and don't try to stop you feel that you are in control. As long as you have not tried to stop you will never know
Fair, fair. I think the main thing is that I'm not taking it in response to a craving , but rather in recognition that my mental state in the early evening is fragile and I'm going to be more susceptible to an anxiety attack when trying to sleep. I'm also well aware of the root causes of my mental state, so if it ever became bad enough that I did feel like I was losing control (upping the dose, taking during the day,…
Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
261–270 of 400 posts
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
The first time I took Xanax I cleaned my kitchen and it went from mildly embarrassing to quite presentable in an hour or two. I could actually execute the things I wanted to do without fighting though ridiculous feelings. I am treated like an addict or ridiculous when I tell doctors I'd rather not "try SSRIs" or a series of strange sedating substances because they're all so afraid of prescribing something with addict…
> I am treated like an addict or ridiculous when I tell doctors I'd rather not "try SSRIs" If you’re willing to take Xanax but you’re not willing to try SSRIs, you have probably been severely misled about the relative risks of each. Seriously, the internet misinformation machine is terrible for SSRIs. One thing to keep in mind when reading online reports of drugs is that they tend to correlate quite heavily with the…
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#263NB: I am a senior network security software engineer with a B.A. currently applying for Ph.D.s. I suggest that nobody believe anything online, regardless of provenance, until 10 years after publication.
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#264I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#265I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…
> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons You can't generalise your experience. Everybody is different and that's the doctor's job to assess whether the benefits outweigh the cost, considering the patient and their problems. Personally, I've been taking benzos very occasionally for 20 years (never more than a few days at a time) and they helped me overcome difficult times. Never had the slightest addicti…
If you have been taking benzos for 20 years you might have an addiction. Parent poster was talking about cravings a year later.
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#266This same strain also has a well known splice variant mutation in a key mitochondrial gene, NNT, that modulates both mitochondrial and macrophage function. The microglial mentioned in this paper are a special class of macrophages that reside in the CNS.
Given these comments, when the authors refer to “wild type” (WT) mice, remember these are anything but true wild type mice. Fully inbred strains always carry numerous homozygous recessive and dominant mutations (several hundred each) that often affect CNS, immune systems, and mitochondrial functions.
The results may well hold up in other strains, but I would not count on it. Do benzodiazepines affect all humans uniformly?
Would studies of other strains or types have been practical? Yes. The Thy1-GFP and Thy1-YFP lines can be crossed to make F1 hybrids. This particular transgene is also available on at least one other strain of mouse (DBA/2J).
Unfortunately, most reviewers at Nature Neuroscience are not geneticists ;-) They are typically strong molecular neurobiologists who are used to reductionist methods. They are perfectly content with submission to Nature journals that are based entirely on with N=1 mouse genome—almost always the mutant C57BL/6J inbred strain.
In my own work I try to avoid this N=1 trap. (But I have also failed ;-)
Generality and robustness of results (see quote below) should ideally be established across two or more diverse genomes before making broad claims of relevance to other species, including od course to humans.
The quote:
“We have demonstrated that microglia in WT mice alter their morphology and functions upon diazepam treatment and cease to do so in Tspo−/− mice.”
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a hard time believing that while the current status quo is suboptimal, there's some little known compounds that are, as you say, revolutionary and with little side effects. Pharmacological research is a constantly moving target, there is no scientific nor economic reason that a supposedly "perfect" remedy remains unknown. Sounds too much like thinly veiled conspiracy, or perhaps they're not as perfect as you'r…
> I have a hard time believing that while the current status quo is suboptimal, there's some little known compounds that are, as you say, revolutionary and with little side effects. Your suspicions are correct. The parent comment is an example of a trend among people who know just enough about pharmacology to be dangerous: Exaggerating the benefits of less popular medications while demonizing mainstream medications.…
Are you honestly going to claim that the many multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry doesn't have a financial incentive to lead people toward 1) daily use medications that gives the industry a monthly recurring revenue stream, 2) where many people on them long-term because many of them have severe withdrawal symptoms so they are very hard to get off of?
And then something like 80% of ad revenue of mainstream media in the US comes from the pharma industry - so how do you suppose that influences what news and narratives are shared or allowed to be shared to the majority of a population on the mainstream-mass media channels?
You conveniently also forgot to mention that SSRIs, for example, actually increase the rate of suicide (along with suicidal ideation) - so you're more likely to kill yourself if you take them then if you didn't take them; that is from their clinical trials. It's the elephant in the room that's been mostly suppressed from conversation for some reason, somehow - probably in large part look at my previous paragraph for one mechanism used.
Are you also claiming then you know "more than just enough about pharmacology" in order to give a more credible response? Or are you perhaps arrogant thinking you're more competent to respond - but perhaps instead you're just indoctrinated into a biased perspective? Do you work in the medical profession, perhaps even one that prescribe medications? Consumers are bombarded by propaganda, and professionals even more so.
In reality you probably don't actually have any idea what level of knowledge nor experience the person you're responding to, saying that their response is dangerous.
Reality is more complex than you're currently aware of.
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
For performance anxiety, try asking a doctor for propranolol. Propranolol blocks the physical symptoms of anxiety. It stops your hear rate and blood pressure from rising. It stops those uncomfortable adrenaline rushes. It stops stress-induced trembling / shaking. It's completely safe, any doctor will happily prescribe it, it's not addicting, and unlike benzos, it doesn't affect your cognition.
How can it be "completely safe" if it's affecting your heart rate and blood pressure? Those are pretty basic systems to tamper with and altering them in ways contrary to what signals your brain is sending is inherently going against the normal functioning of your body.
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Peterson is a verified idiot with nonexistent self-control. Not the slightest modicum of it. Basing anything off of his antics is asinine. So weird to see people who put him on a pedestal on HN. & benzos aren’t “horrible drugs” People who don’t know how to manage themselves and their usage of them are horrible people though, especially when they try to cut down others who have no issues using them responsibly, which…
> Basing anything off of his antics is asinine. So weird to see people who put him on a pedestal on HN. not sure if its putting him on a pedestal as much as an example of what some prescribed drugs can do to people when they aren't careful...
I’ve just seen a confusing amount of HN users who do speak of him in such a manner & thought I would make reference to that for context.
Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a hard time believing that while the current status quo is suboptimal, there's some little known compounds that are, as you say, revolutionary and with little side effects. Pharmacological research is a constantly moving target, there is no scientific nor economic reason that a supposedly "perfect" remedy remains unknown. Sounds too much like thinly veiled conspiracy, or perhaps they're not as perfect as you'r…
On the inertia and the gap between what the research/newest drugs and what is prescribed day to day: it is very real. And there’s tons of reasons for that, ranging from: - doctors that cling to the treatment they know to work (“the devil you know”) - sheer lack of knowledge (not their speciality so they’re not up to date by a long shot) - waiting for a few more years to have long term real world data - pharma compani…
- pharma companies who spend more to get the lion's share of ad time keep their brand at the forefront of consumers, consumers then ask for those medications and then don't know about alternatives because they've been drowned out
- arguably some of most effective drugs have been illegal the past 40+ years as part of the "war on drugs" (did pharma industry help make those illegal?): marijuana, psilocybin/DMT, MDMA, and even cocaine will knock people out of a depression - where it could be taken weekly or less (arguably potentially more addictive than other medications, but SSRIs with severe withdrawal symptom is arguably equivalent to addiction, the aversion to the withdrawal symptoms) - but pharma can't patent any of those, so they can't gain exclusive rights to a brand they advertise to manipulate people to buy or trust their brand over something else (so patented drugs can captured more revenue and have more profit to pay more for ad time to drown out cheaper, more effective competitors).
- etc.