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Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

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Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#231
post #41

Is it reasonable to assume that the same thing applies to the Z-drugs too, specifically Zolpidem? I have a family member that I'm worried about, that has taken Zolpidem for several years straight (apart from minor breaks in between prescription refills because of overconsumption during the previous refill...).

Z drugs are better than benzodiazepines but not by much. Their pharmacodynamics are similar: they act on the same GABA receptors.

Zolpidem is best used for a couple to regularize sleep patterns and help establish proper sleep hygiene. Trazodone at lower doses is better for long term use, especially in older patients.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#232
post #67

The world of medecine is degenerate. Sustainable, non addictive and non neurotoxic anxiolytics exists: the #1 being opipramol the sigmaergic. emoxypine (which btw cure hangover) and guanfacine are worth mentioning. Maybe beta blockers to some extent. NMDA antagonists such as memantine have side effects but are not neurotoxic to my knowledge and there are milder ones such as mg-lthreonate. afobazole is interesting but…

I have a hard time believing that while the current status quo is suboptimal, there's some little known compounds that are, as you say, revolutionary and with little side effects. Pharmacological research is a constantly moving target, there is no scientific nor economic reason that a supposedly "perfect" remedy remains unknown. Sounds too much like thinly veiled conspiracy, or perhaps they're not as perfect as you'r…

On the inertia and the gap between what the research/newest drugs and what is prescribed day to day: it is very real.

And there’s tons of reasons for that, ranging from:

- doctors that cling to the treatment they know to work (“the devil you know”)

- sheer lack of knowledge (not their speciality so they’re not up to date by a long shot)

- waiting for a few more years to have long term real world data

- pharma companies effectively bribing them by any means so they don’t look elsewhere

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#233
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phenibut is horrific and should be banned. I thought I could control it, but I couldn't.

Because you have no self control a substance should be banned. Cool world that would be to live in.

These drugs chemically change the brain, so your brain might fall into a state where you lose control.

Drugs often get pulled decades after being approved, usually because the safety studies were not expansive enough to give a complete picture of the danger. For example: Varenicline.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really are bad at DIY medical care... if only we could found a profession dedicated to doing it for them... I propose we call them, "Doctors," from the Latin word for "teacher," by reference to their role in instructing patients on the things they need to know about their health.

Joking aside, if I’m seeing more than one of these hypothetical professions, someone needs to coordinate my care. For myself, I trust me to keep everyone informed. Anyone else wouldn’t have the same incentive to do a good job. After all, I’m the one that suffers the consequences if there’s a mistake. :)

Age and cognitive issues may hinder you from effectively doing "a good job" of that.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#235

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons.

You tell people having a panic attack not to take a sublingual benzodiazepine?

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#236

The world of medecine is degenerate. Sustainable, non addictive and non neurotoxic anxiolytics exists: the #1 being opipramol the sigmaergic. emoxypine (which btw cure hangover) and guanfacine are worth mentioning. Maybe beta blockers to some extent. NMDA antagonists such as memantine have side effects but are not neurotoxic to my knowledge and there are milder ones such as mg-lthreonate. afobazole is interesting but…

don't forget buspirone!

buspirone works great, when it works.. which is for what ? 20% of the population?

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#237
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons You can't generalise your experience. Everybody is different and that's the doctor's job to assess whether the benefits outweigh the cost, considering the patient and their problems. Personally, I've been taking benzos very occasionally for 20 years (never more than a few days at a time) and they helped me overcome difficult times. Never had the slightest addicti…

I have friend who was at nursing school, and she'd get them prescribed for the few occasions where she had to do a presentation, as she would get extremely nervous. She never took them after. Maybe she could've addressed the issue differently, but it worked for her, and she never got hooked. But milage varies, and so on. She also told me that at the hospital, benzos are readily available and they kinda hand then out…

> I think they only work if you got anxiety or something

Probably something to that. I didn't feel much at the prescribed dose. Being curious and foolish, I took 3x. Did feel that. Socially effusive. Good sleep. There was a physical aspect. A warm glow, muscles that felt relaxed rather than stiff. Like waking up in warm sun after a particularly good night's sleep.

People without anxiety, who aren't literally and metaphorically tense, probably get far less of that. But that's what it does for a really anxious person like me, especially with a bit too much. So of course I did it again the next day.

You quickly come to long for, or believe that you're just better off, in that state all the time. But there is tolerance. It stops working like that at the same dose after a few days in my experience. So, take more. I was in big trouble within a month. That's the psychological addiction in my experience, the strong desire or preference for being in that state, emotionally.

I couldn't stop. No physical consequences but intolerable withdrawal mostly of rebound anxiety and insomnia. I eventually got off them with a very long taper. ~5 months with the dose adjusted weekly. No significant physical withdrawal. At the right dose of a long-lasting benzodiazepine, I felt like before I had started taking them, more or less. I did have to learn to deal with the psychological need to be more disinhibited than normal. If I could do that, and not escalate doses, getting off would be possible. It was, and I haven't taken any since the last dose of the taper. I think about that state and sometimes I do long for aspects of it, but they're not really cravings anymore. Only get those for nicotine.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#238
>sleep-inducing dosage

I don't know why benzos are used for sleep anymore. It's generally a higher dose than what's needed to manage anxiety, so there's increased risk of dependency and you build up tolerance quickly.

In contrast, something like a low dose of Seroquel is at least as effective, has a much lower addictions & abuse profile, and tolerance doesn't build up very quickly at all.

On top of which there should very rarely be any need for regular sleep aids. Chronic idiopathic insomnia is relatively rare, and any other forms should have treatment protocols that don't involve heavy duty maintenance meds.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#239
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons You can't generalise your experience. Everybody is different and that's the doctor's job to assess whether the benefits outweigh the cost, considering the patient and their problems. Personally, I've been taking benzos very occasionally for 20 years (never more than a few days at a time) and they helped me overcome difficult times. Never had the slightest addicti…

Same here. Occasional clonazepam use for panic attacks which are secondary to post-traumatic stress disorder. Never even the tiniest sign of dependence. Sometimes I go months between uses. I am also a chronic pain patient and I worry that benzos are going to get the opioid treatment. There was a period in the mid to late 2010s where patients who depended on opioids for any sort of quality of life were taken off of th…

long term constant exposure to opioids will literally begin cause the pain they purport to solve. If you give a perfectly healthy person with no pain at all opioids for long enough they will be indistinguishable from a person who has an actual chronic pain issue.

people should only ever take opioids VERY TEMPORARILY to get through surgeries or other such things. Opioids are not for long term pain management.

Same thing with benzos and anxiety.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch. People are really bad at handling their own medical care. I’m legitimately on 8 different medications and 3 supplements (not including vitamins), per doctor’s instructions. There is no way I’m going to any appointment (including my dentist) without a printed list of everything, including the dosages, instructions, and reason for being on it. Edit: I apologize for the poor phrasing. It comes off being flippant.…

> People are really bad at handling their own medical care. Of course they are, that's why they seek professional help from people who have spent years studying medicine and who can presumably be trusted to understand the intricacies of the issues involved. People are bad at handling their own auto repairs, that's why we have mechanics. They're bad at handling their own legal issues, that's why we have lawyers. Etc e…

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