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Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#61

Post by redthrowaway »

huhtenberg wrote: post #45
tamersalama wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say a court marshal ending with a televised execution wouldn't been better. This man was evil. And he was crazy. A violent death, no matter how, is what he deserved.

> This man was evil. And he was crazy. That's what they said on TV, didn't they? Must be true then. In other words - how do you know? How do you know the picture you are being fed by the media is accurate enough to assign him a "violent death" as a proper punishment? And without a public trial at that.

This kind of pseudo-intellectual relativism is depressing. The man massacred his own people. He was insane. Don't take CNN's word for it; listen to the damned audiotapes yourself.

Critically analyzing media portrayals is good. Dismissing any conclusions reached as, "well nobody can really say" is facile and lazy. It's what people who don't have anything to add to the conversation say in an attempt to sound smart.

Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#63

Post by krschultz »

huhtenberg wrote: post #45
tamersalama wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say a court marshal ending with a televised execution wouldn't been better. This man was evil. And he was crazy. A violent death, no matter how, is what he deserved.

> This man was evil. And he was crazy. That's what they said on TV, didn't they? Must be true then. In other words - how do you know? How do you know the picture you are being fed by the media is accurate enough to assign him a "violent death" as a proper punishment? And without a public trial at that.

Well if you don't trust the collective portrayal of dozens of different media outlets and books printed from all over the world by people of different nationality, allegiences, motives, and religions, then you really can't believe anything. And so at that point what is a trial? Couldn't that all be fake too?

At some point you will have to trust something - you can't even be sure of what you see with your eyes as shown by numerous studies of false eye witness testimony.

On the cases where the evidence is slim or the news has just broken I'm very critical - this morning I didn't quite belive that he was even dead. But when you have such overwhelming evidence of horrible deeds over the last couple of decades it is pretty easy to say he was a bad man.

Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#64

Post by yohui »

nobody314159 wrote: post #48
ugh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrug. NATO saw an opportunity and grabbed it. Were their motives pure? What do I care.

It would make more sense for Nato to attack Saudi/UAE/Bahrain etc. They buy western hardware so if we destroy a few hundred Tornadoes/Eurofighters/F16s then there are big replacement contracts to create jobs in Europe and America.

This must be sarcasm, but I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#66

Post by loumf »

roboneal wrote: post #34
Aloisius wrote: post #3

To quote Andrew Sullivan: To rid the world of Osama bin Laden, Anwar al-Awlaki and Moammar Qaddafi within six months: if Obama were a Republican, he'd be on Mount Rushmore by now.

Amazing the shift of perspective... How many who voted for Obama (or at least against John McCain) would expect their vote would elect a President who would violate the sovereignty of Pakistan with a special forces operation, murder an American citizen without due process, and enter into armed conflict with Libya without the consultation of Congress and eventually assassinate a sitting head of state?

Obama specifically said in the 2008 debates that he would go into Pakistan without permission to get Bin Laden

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/flashback-2008-mc...

Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#67

Post by ugh »

nobody314159 wrote: post #48
ugh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shrug. NATO saw an opportunity and grabbed it. Were their motives pure? What do I care.

It would make more sense for Nato to attack Saudi/UAE/Bahrain etc. They buy western hardware so if we destroy a few hundred Tornadoes/Eurofighters/F16s then there are big replacement contracts to create jobs in Europe and America.

I don’t understand the connection.

Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#68

Post by jellicle »

kabuks wrote: post #55
civilian wrote: post #9

I guess it's okay that he's dead, but I'm concerned about the way he was killed. A bunch of soldiers ran into his house, stripped him, dragged him through the streets, and shot him at some point. That is some Trojan War shit. I'm still not convinced that the Middle East is civilized... which is why I'm an isolationist. I'm not very reassured by this quote from the transitional government spokesperson: “We were seriou…

Depends on your definition of civilized. Having been born and raised in the middle east (Egypt), I can assure you that by many definitions of 'civilized' we fare really well compared to the US. True, there isn't separation of religion and state, and that leads to much 'uncivilized' behavior, and a wacky sense of law. On the other hands, we don't have nearly the same rates of murder, rape, theft that we have here in t…

Yeah, I had some questions about civilization in Egypt. Is Egypt assassinating thousands of people worldwide with anti-tank missiles fired from unmanned aircraft, on a daily basis?

Because if not, then yes I'd say you compare quite well to the U.S.

Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#69

Post by csomar »

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #11
civilian wrote: post #9

I guess it's okay that he's dead, but I'm concerned about the way he was killed. A bunch of soldiers ran into his house, stripped him, dragged him through the streets, and shot him at some point. That is some Trojan War shit. I'm still not convinced that the Middle East is civilized... which is why I'm an isolationist. I'm not very reassured by this quote from the transitional government spokesperson: “We were seriou…

I believe that Libyans are by and large a civilized, reasonable people (just like Iranians, Iraqis etc) but if anyone in the West thinks that the rebel army is made up of regular, work-a-day Libyan lawyers, doctors, teachers and other civilians... then the media did a great job at spinning this one.

I have watched the Libyan and Tunisian revolutions. I can confirm that the Tunisian one was led by a particular part of the population (mainly the poor and forgotten). In the Libyan revolution, I saw all kind of people from different background, social and economical levels. Libyans are friendly, and generally quite generous and kind. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised that a good part of the rebel army is made of regular citizens.

Re: Qaddafi Is Dead, Libyan Officials Say

#70

Post by huhtenberg »

redthrowaway wrote: post #61
huhtenberg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This man was evil. And he was crazy. That's what they said on TV, didn't they? Must be true then. In other words - how do you know? How do you know the picture you are being fed by the media is accurate enough to assign him a "violent death" as a proper punishment? And without a public trial at that.

This kind of pseudo-intellectual relativism is depressing. The man massacred his own people. He was insane. Don't take CNN's word for it; listen to the damned audiotapes yourself. Critically analyzing media portrayals is good. Dismissing any conclusions reached as, "well nobody can really say" is facile and lazy. It's what people who don't have anything to add to the conversation say in an attempt to sound smart.

> It's what people who don't have anything to add to the conversation say in an attempt to sound smart.

This applies to literally every comment on this page.

It is not "well nobody can really say" dismissal. It is a matter of media feeding made-up facts since current conflict started. You must've missed the photos of insurgents storming strongholds in their flip-flops, the same guy posing dead in more than one position and other marvels of staged photography. The fighting was there, but it was not done by "insurgents" photographed by the press. Whatever was coming out of the tube was an A grade orchestrated bullsh#t. That's what's depressing. If you are comfortable cheering on his death provided with such accurate and transparent media coverage, who am I to spoil the fun.

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