tbh the image isnt inspiring. kinda like a low res computer simulation.
It's an object 26k light years from Earth and emits no light. That they were able to capture an image at all is both a scientific and technological triumph.
Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
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Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#102I find the whole thing amazing and captivating - yet the image is … huh … slightly underwhelming. It looks like some gaussian blurred random image. I wish it could be the kind of crisp image JWST ‘sent’. It’s difficult to force oneself to not romanticise these un-visible things based on artists visualisation we got accustomed to.
It reminds me of all the hype and exuberance around the "first ever picture of a black hole". An achievement worthy of being lauded, for sure, but something just felt so artificial about the coverage. And truth be told, the photo itself was underwhelming in light of how incredible it was made out to be.
Speak for yourself :-)
No one ever before was able to see this.
It feels very similar to when I hold an expensive CPU in my hand or a very expensive (because handmade) watch which is 'more' than just a CPU or watch.
It's the marvel of our time. Craftsmanship
Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only way to get higher angular resolution is to use higher frequencies (which they are working on) or use radio telescopes in space to get longer baselines than the diameter of the Earth. Would it be possible to use the same trick in space? IE: get a baseline the diameter of Earth's orbit (roughly)?
For Interferometry to work the data from different baselines has to be collected at the same time so waiting 6 months does not help. Spacecraft could theoretically be used to extend the baselines but the volume of data to be transferred is prohibitive with current spacecraft comm tech. Even on Earth they resort to shipping cases of hard drives instead of transferring over the Internet. One technique where simply wait…
Why not ship cases of hard drives then? With the plummeting cost of space launches, it seems reasonable to include enough ΔV(1) for a return mission.
(1) https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/delta-v
edit: We could also send the (super)computer that will process these images in LEO, so we don't even have to worry about atmospheric re-entry.
Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just curious but why?
GR and quantum field theory don't work together, so at least one of them is wrong, and it would be good to figure out which and how.
so at least one of them is wrong
This is a semantic nitpick, but I don’t think it’s useful to think of these theories as “wrong”. They are both models that make predictions about physical phenomena that, when tested, are extremely accurate. They provide incomplete and inconsistent predictions of what happens at the very edges of physical reality, and they need reconciled.
Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#105I find the whole thing amazing and captivating - yet the image is … huh … slightly underwhelming. It looks like some gaussian blurred random image. I wish it could be the kind of crisp image JWST ‘sent’. It’s difficult to force oneself to not romanticise these un-visible things based on artists visualisation we got accustomed to.
It's actually one of the sharpest images ever made - in terms of angular resolution. The Sag.A* ring is about 51 microarcseconds in diameter. The EHT has a theoretical resolution of ~25 micro arcseconds. For comparison NirCam on Webb has a pixel resolution of 70 miliarcseconds (about 2800 times worse resolution than EHT). The reason it looks blurry is that the black hole features are close to the resolution of EHT so…
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Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any evidence supporting general relativity at these scales is presumably also evidence in favour of dark matter actually being matter, as opposed to gravitational theory needing modification. Seems like we can still learn quite a bit from ruling out alternatives, even if it's not the quick answer we might like.
Why is that the case?
Well maybe it's more evidence against MOND-like theories explaining dark matter, but those already have little buy-in nowadays.
Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Didn’t I already reply to you weeks ago about a similar comment? Now you can read the actual papers which explain in detail why your comment is incorrect.
I did read them and I'm not satisfied with their methods.
Either you are an expert in this field than it should be you who writes a clear argument and present it or you are not an expert.
Aren't they are peer reviewed?
What is your expertise in astrophysics?
Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gravitational physicist here. Every time we look in a new place and see that GR still works, it is pretty amazing. Part of this is the fact that everyone in the field works very hard to find a crack in GR's armor, and so far it has resisted everyone. The other part is that GR has a romantic beauty to it, both in structure and in predictions. Each time GR matches reality in a new context, the feeling is akin to watchi…
It seems the common expectation is that GR is more likely to be the theory that needs to be modified the most - or more or less tossed out and replaced with a quantum theory of gravity. Is it possible that GR is just "right" and QM needs to be modified to fit into it?
The most likely explanation is that we have no clue, just like every other point in history. Science is always new.
Everyone is different, but most scientists seek areas where experiment doesn’t match the predictions. It’s the only way we learn.
One such instance is the W Boson Anomaly: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdpwrmoj/?k=1
If the equations were right, the experimental error would be zero (modulo uncertainty bars). Instead, we’re quite confident the standard model is wrong (or “incomplete” to phrase it diplomatically).
As an aside, this is also a great example of TikTok turning a corner. I now have 184 educational videos saved, along with dozens of science videos. I learn more on TikTok than any other source now, which I didn’t expect. There’s an avid physicist community, and I made friends with someone who works at CERN. https://twitter.com/simoneragoni?s=21&t=xIkxhA--TzKDWA5XN3ve... Get ready for TikTok to become the new Wikipedia within a decade.
Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you think you know more about astronomy than a team of scientists publishing peer reviewed information?
Peer reviewed has nothing to do with the scientific method. It is just a layer of scientific bureaucracy. Just give me a calibration image of another celestial body and I'll be happy.
this guy astronomies.
Re: Astronomers reveal first image of the black hole at the heart of our galaxy
#110One of the findings they announced at the press conference is that the spin of the black hole is not aligned with the galactic plane but is tilted "towards us" so that it is viewed face on. How unexpected is that?
For a small-mass central black hole (CBH), the spin-spin coupling of the CBH and the bulk matter of a relatively small and sparse galaxy is so small that it the orientation of the spin axis is almost unconstrained. That from Earth we look down on the CBH's north pole (right-hand-rule: the bright features appear to circulate counter-clockwise, and there is decent evidence in them that the black hole's spin is in the s…
With all the copious computing power today and given this problem seems mostly non-quantum, do simulations bring any significant insight at all?