Live data from Hacker News

Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

community.intercoin.org

751–760 of 976 posts

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#751
post #711

USDT actually has a cash out mechanism directly with Tether (the company), right? If it is trading at 0.9935 (coinmarketcap showing this now), what's stopping people from buying 1 million USDT and selling back to the company to make a $6500 profit? Is moving it around very slow? Is the cash out mechanism limited to X per day or something?

You would need to move 1 million into some crypto exchange, there is a bit of risk there and it takes significant amounts of time. Then go and buy 1 million of USDT, you can see the live orders here, there are several buy orders even above a million for prices between 0,98 and 0,99: https://ftx.com/trade/USDT/USD

And then you need to take your 1 million USDT to Tether, become a verified customer (I'm guessing this takes time as well) and exchange them for real dollars. Which they will then probably take a few days to deliver to you.

So I can see how that may make sense for someone that's already through most of those steps and at lower prices like the 0,95 from this morning. But at the current 0.9944 sell price I don't think it's worth it for many people.

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#752
post #743

Come on guys, do some research, Tether now publishes audited reserve reports as part of the settlement with the US Department of Justice. ~70% of tether in circulation are backed by Treasury Bills and cash deposits, so immediately redeemable. The other ~30% in short term commercial paper can pose a bit of risk but unless they did something really stupid (and they are all but stupid) nothing to put the backing at risk…

Can you please clarify what you mean by “audited reserve reports”? The best ive heard of is “attestation” or “assurance.” From the very page you linked:

> Tether Holdings Limited do regular assurance opinions every quarter

And from the latest report:

> We have examined the assertions by the management of Tether Holdings Limited that its Consolidated Reserves Report as of 31 December 2021 at 11:59 PM UTC (the “CRR”), a copy of which has been included in Appendix 1 to this report, is correctly stated based on the balances set out therein.

Thats the account attesting that yes, they were provided with a report. The report, as stated, is internally consistent. Where does it say the independent accountant audited the holdings?

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#753

This title is... wrong. It's entirely normal for stablecoins to fluctuate in minor ways like this [1], even USDC (which is literally backed by actual US dollars in a bank account) fluctuates +- 1 cent regularly. This is because these prices come from a variety of exchanges trading these currencies, with different supply pools. Arbitrage remediates this very quickly (Tether, at time of writing, is at $1.00). Not defen…

That chart shows Tether hit a 3.5-year low today. Hasn't been this low since the last crypto crash. No guarantee that will continue, but there are definitely some very smart, very rich people looking at how to break Tether.

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#754
post #191

It's hard to overemphasize how big a deal the Tether peg breaking would be (is?). At $78B, it dwarfs UST/Terra, and it's supposed to be an asset-backed stablecoin, not a risky algorithmic boondoggle like UST. If Tether plunges, it will take the broader crypto markets with it. Emphasis on the "supposed to be", since many, many, many unanswered questions have been raised about Tether's reserves and they've previously b…

Do people in crypto sincerely believe Tether is backed? I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm genuinely asking. I'm a bit of a skeptic of how the crypto market has developed overall, and the intentions of the major players, so I keep reminding myself that I'm biased, but I haven't believed Tether is even remotely close to being fully backed for a long while, and I've just sort of assumed everyone who's 'bought in' to the…

Generally Western people do not believe in Tether. People believe in it regionally.

The counter argument is that Tether's growth is the exact same as USDC's growth and other stablecoin's growth, especially those that are structured in the exact same way, with 1:1 redeemability for fiat somewhere. Some of those, people like the level of validation they show, others have undermined trust and never show the level of validation that people want.

Tethers are primarily created upon deposit into Bitfinex. Any fiat deposit. And are only destroyed upon redemption, but people rarely do that because they often just trade out or sell the Tethers. This is akin/analogous to Robinhood creating a RobinBucks whenever a deposit hits. We would see the growth of RobinBucks redeemable 1:1 for dollars. We don't see that because Robinhood and other exchanges don't do it that way. But if a popular exchange did that, we would see what that really looks like and say "ah, this isn't strange actually, we just weren't used to this level of transparency". Redemptions would be low because people don't really leave their brokerage/investing accounts, they just sit in cash waiting to buy a dip... in their brokerage accounts.

Finally, multiple US authorities have looked into Tether multiple times. Typically their fines have been about a combination of A) not being 100% backed by dollars at some point in time and B) not disclosing that. Meaning that at one point and subsequently, Tether did match their level of review, and at one point was backed 100%. Tether has had skepticism from the day it was created nearly 10 years ago, and a US authority got all the information was like "well that one time in 2018 we didn't like that". Tether is not 100% backed by dollars, it mostly is though. The standard is better than other respected financial institutions.

Let there be a run, I don't like to use Tether. I don't like algorithmic stablecoins more. There are options now, those options are holding up. Regardless, Tether isn't as complicated as people think. There are other reasons to avoid Tether and all centralized stablecoins that can be frozen address by address, or by losing access to their bank account. Remember when that was the criticism? Probably not.

Its also easy to see how and why it does work so swimmingly, despite all the questions and criticism. And thats because someone can arb really well and reliably.

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#755
post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons this is nonsense are twofold: First, I have never actually seen any comments here disavowing themselves of responsibility. It is always aimed at protecting others and this is rooted in the obvious fact that a very large number of people are not (and we do not expect them to be) experts in investment. That assets can go up or down is one thing, and nobody can be protected from that, but there is an extensi…

> First, I have never actually seen any comments here disavowing themselves of responsibility. Pulling from the comment I was replying to: > ... many poorer and financially illeterate people have been tricked ... That's quite literally disavowing responsibility. > ... but there is an extensive body of law intended to protect people from outright falsehoods This is true and the law hasn't quite caught up to crypto sca…

> even if the scammers get prosecuted--possibly even go to jail--you're 99% likely never getting your money back

The point of prosecuting scammers is not restorative justice[0], but instead punative. You want the penalty for scamming people to be high enough that even the scammers that don't get caught move onto a different grift.

Whether or not punative justice works is very context-sensitive. It requires the crime itself to be something done because it makes money - opportunistic crimes or crimes of passion will not be deterred by high punishments[1]. However, I absolutely do buy the idea that scammers are highly-calculating thieves that can be deterred in this way. They operate highly organized criminal enterprises with their own internal and external security concerns, and respond highly to perceived risk of prosecution[2]. This is why they like to target old people, the marks are easier to scam and less likely to admit being scammed.

That's not to say that we should fall back upon the "personal responsibility" angle, either. It's easy enough to say that it only happens to the financially illiterate, or the elderly, or what have you. This is wrong; there are plenty of scammers out there just waiting to push whatever button you have that will make you send them money. The problem with pushing "personal responsibility" as an angle is that it's a victim-blaming narrative, and one that makes it easy to fancy yourself invulnerable. "I can't get scammed, because I took personal responsibility."

DO NOT DO THIS.

You will laugh at the people who bought into FOMOCoin or sent thousands of dollars to a refund scammer... only to click on, say, a fake FedEx tracking link you got e-mailed and wind up getting hit with some 0day malware that drains your bank account or encrypts your files in seconds. Personal responsibility will not save you from your own sense of invulnerability, because there is no level of responsibility one can take that will ensure that you never, ever get scammed. You can only ever make yourself a less desirable mark.

[0] i.e. putting the thing you stole back

[1] Related note: governments love to insist upon high punishments for crimes more often committed by people on the margins of society (e.g. poor/black/Mexican/some other power minority). At one point, we at least punished businesses the same way, but then Enron happened and the US decided killing an entire accounting firm just to prove a point was going too far.

[2] In one revealing case, Youtuber Mark Rober was able to shut down an entire tech support scammer group on Telegram by merely saying he had their dox[3] and was planning to drop them on a few law-enforcement agencies.

[3] 4chan slang for "personally-identifying information".

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#756
post #455
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you've been honestly working on the assumption that it is, then you deserve to lose your (real) money to some crypto VCs on an island somewhere. The sad reality is that many poorer and financially illeterate people have been tricked by VCs and other grifters into this with billions of dollars spent in advertising. So, no, they don't deserve to lose their money to these assholes. These assholes need to be prosecu…

I actually hate people disavowing themselves of responsibility here. While there is definitely some shady stuff in Crypto (particularly NFTs, which seem to be 99% scams), there's a certain level of personal responsibility required here. People saw the meteoric rise of Bitcoin and got a serious case of FOMO. Everyone wanted to be on the next Bitcoin. This, ultimately, is the American Dream: to get rich by doing nothin…

>People should be honest and admit (at least to themselves) that they didn't understand what they were investing in let alone believe in it fundamentally

But only bitcoin bidders need to admit that they love lording their “smarts” over others? Seems like you are doing it yourself.

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I 100% agree and this is something that libertarians and anarchists gloss over completely. I assure you, libertarians and anarchists, or at least the ones who have actually bothered to go beyond the surface, are not unaware of this. You're wielding those monikers as if anyone to bear them would be a fool by definition. It is clear low trust has adverse effects on growth. What is not clear is that unbounded rapid gro…

> You're wielding those monikers as if anyone to bear them would be a fool by definition. Not as far off as you might think

It’s true upending our system would be the death of it

But it’s unfalsifiable gibberish itself to believe our system is some pinnacle of human society

Many problems that plague states that lean into socialism can be traced to capitalists meddling in their affairs through international politics

More rules for thee not for me policy by nations of people who would meltdown over externalized forces dictating their way life. Hardly proof in a vacuum socialism is a sign of the end times when it’s held up apes who can’t communicate except by throwing poop

Your truth is rooted in the empowerment it provides you. No one else has an obligation to your figurative sense of power

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#758
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, how can you sue over this kind of thing? I thought the whole point of crypto is that it's not regulated. And that also meant that if you got screwed then you are SOL.

It's basically all uncharted waters. Yesterday's freakout over Coinbase saying that all customer assets could be seized in the case of bankruptcy was basically them saying they have absolutely no idea what would happen because no precedent exists. In reality, regulatory agencies have broad authority and can seek more when needed to deal with unexpected events. If they think Coinbase or Tether represent a systemic ris…

> If they think Coinbase or Tether represent a systemic risk, they will find a way to bail out investors because the downside risk of doing nothing is too great. It's possible some of the major crypto institutions have reached Too Big To Fail status regardless of whatever statutory authority exists to protect them.

That's silly. The only people who actually believe this are the ones who have so bought into the hype that they don't realize that crypto is not a functional part of our system of currency that underlies our economic production. Crypto is an asset that is prone to bubbles that provides little to no actual economic production. The "major crypto institutions" will have to be bailed out privately, if at all.

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#759
post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually hate people disavowing themselves of responsibility here. While there is definitely some shady stuff in Crypto (particularly NFTs, which seem to be 99% scams), there's a certain level of personal responsibility required here. People saw the meteoric rise of Bitcoin and got a serious case of FOMO. Everyone wanted to be on the next Bitcoin. This, ultimately, is the American Dream: to get rich by doing nothin…

> (particularly NFTs, which seem to be 99% scams) What is the 1% you think aren't scams?

>What is the 1% you think aren't scams?

Money laundering. The one use case where NFTs are actually effective.

Re: Tether starting to lose its peg too, after Terra did

#760
post #455
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you've been honestly working on the assumption that it is, then you deserve to lose your (real) money to some crypto VCs on an island somewhere. The sad reality is that many poorer and financially illeterate people have been tricked by VCs and other grifters into this with billions of dollars spent in advertising. So, no, they don't deserve to lose their money to these assholes. These assholes need to be prosecu…

I actually hate people disavowing themselves of responsibility here. While there is definitely some shady stuff in Crypto (particularly NFTs, which seem to be 99% scams), there's a certain level of personal responsibility required here. People saw the meteoric rise of Bitcoin and got a serious case of FOMO. Everyone wanted to be on the next Bitcoin. This, ultimately, is the American Dream: to get rich by doing nothin…

>This, ultimately, is the American Dream: to get rich by doing nothing other than getting lucky and being able to say how smart you are. Not by creating any kind of value.

Holy projection batman. I agree that much of crypto is rampant speculation, but pretty much all of the legitimate uses of crypto is done in stable coins. People don't have money sitting in tether because they wanted to get rich.

Post reply on HN