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The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

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Re: The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

#81

Post by mwcampbell »

spamizbad wrote: post #66
onion2k wrote: post #25

"Maybe this is actually obvious, but it's still a common mistake in startups so I'll say it - you don't have to believe your product is good to start selling; you just have to be better than not having the product. You don't even have to believe it's the best, or believe it's complete, or even like it. People will happily give you money for anything that makes their pain point slightly less painful." Me, 3 hours ago.…

This is extremely true. I think some people are "maximizers" - They will always do research to seek out the "best" for their given budget for even moderately priced purchases. Engineers tend to fit this profile, so its easy for them to get psyched-out when trying to ship a product. But people - and businesses - aren't always like this. They will buy what's available and seems to get the job done and seems like less o…

It's worse if we routinely read highly critical message boards like this one. I'm currently developing a desktop app using Electron, but comments like this [1] make me wonder if I should scrap it and start over using purely Rust and/or C++.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31350035

Re: The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

#83

Post by alin23 »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #68

I've only ever "shipped" two independent projects, and they are the the best things I have ever done for myself in terms of development, both from a personal career growth perspective but even financially. I work at a nonprofit and I had done some ABSURDLY SIMPLE data analysis on a relatively annoying public data set to consume. I'd done it for our institution, but it was sort of straightforward to generalize it to a…

The first project sounds like you just thought of a really clever caching mechanism :) if the data rarely changes and the cache is still valid then why not, I think you did find the “proper” way to do it!

As programmers we tend to want to generalize a lot, when in fact you can get to 80% of solving the real pain of a task with the first 20% of the work. The rest of the work can usually be done by a human much faster and with more trust than a three-thousand-if-elif-else solution would get.

Re: The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

#84

Post by spamizbad »

mwcampbell wrote: post #81
spamizbad wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely true. I think some people are "maximizers" - They will always do research to seek out the "best" for their given budget for even moderately priced purchases. Engineers tend to fit this profile, so its easy for them to get psyched-out when trying to ship a product. But people - and businesses - aren't always like this. They will buy what's available and seems to get the job done and seems like less o…

It's worse if we routinely read highly critical message boards like this one. I'm currently developing a desktop app using Electron, but comments like this [1] make me wonder if I should scrap it and start over using purely Rust and/or C++. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31350035

I couldn't imagine building a desktop app with anything other than Electron these days UNLESS I had significant prior experience with some other toolchain.

Re: The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

#85

Post by Markstar »

I'm a bit in a similar boat: My wife's department (university) asked me for a 'little' favor, which I programmed in Java to get back into programming after ~4 years of being a stay-at-home dad. After finishing the prototype in 2019, we made the life-changing decision to focus on making it a program that we want to sell. Decided to go C++ and Electron, but with the corona virus and me taking forever to learn all the skills, I still haven't released it as of now. :(

However, I'm still working on it and hope to release it in time for a conference that I signed up for, so this will be a 'make or break' year for me.

Re: The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

#88

Post by camgunz »

mwcampbell wrote: post #81
spamizbad wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely true. I think some people are "maximizers" - They will always do research to seek out the "best" for their given budget for even moderately priced purchases. Engineers tend to fit this profile, so its easy for them to get psyched-out when trying to ship a product. But people - and businesses - aren't always like this. They will buy what's available and seems to get the job done and seems like less o…

It's worse if we routinely read highly critical message boards like this one. I'm currently developing a desktop app using Electron, but comments like this [1] make me wonder if I should scrap it and start over using purely Rust and/or C++. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31350035

As Charm would say: "haters > /dev/null". Build what you want!

Re: The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

#89

Post by wildmanx »

onion2k wrote: post #49
lbriner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't quite agree that people will happily give you money for anything that makes their pain less. There is still oboarding friction, possible import issues, fear of vendor lock-in etc. I think it is something that is easy to describe in theory, "ship what people want", "pivot quickly" etc. but the truth is most of us think we have solved a problem with our product but as soon as the first customer says, "I woul…

There is still oboarding friction, possible import issues, fear of vendor lock-in etc. My point isn't really about the customer - it's about the startup, and the belief that you'll get to where you want to be eventually. Every single reason a founder can come up with not to be out there selling like "The product isn't finished", "It needs feature X", "It's not fast enough", "It needs better design", etc is wrong. No…

> Every single reason a founder can come up with not to be out there selling like "The product isn't finished", "It needs feature X", "It's not fast enough", "It needs better design", etc is wrong.

But don't you run the risk of some potential customer coming, trying it, deciding it's crap, moving on, and now they are burned for the foreseeable future? So, once your product isn't that crap anymore, they won't come back try again, since your brand is burned and has built a "that's crap" reputation?

Re: The saddest “just ship it” story (2020)

#90

Post by samhw »

mwcampbell wrote: post #81
spamizbad wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely true. I think some people are "maximizers" - They will always do research to seek out the "best" for their given budget for even moderately priced purchases. Engineers tend to fit this profile, so its easy for them to get psyched-out when trying to ship a product. But people - and businesses - aren't always like this. They will buy what's available and seems to get the job done and seems like less o…

It's worse if we routinely read highly critical message boards like this one. I'm currently developing a desktop app using Electron, but comments like this [1] make me wonder if I should scrap it and start over using purely Rust and/or C++. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31350035

Honestly, I say this as a big Rust user: ignore that shit. At the level of writing a desktop app, the truth is that you're already using a vast amount of CPU and memory, and eking out performance gains on that level is not going to make a vast difference. It's very likely that your Rust code would end up being littered with .clone() and the like, and likely less performant than well-written JS.

Also, V8 is an incredible piece of technology, and is not that far off being competitive with Rust or C++. In some scenarios GC (by which I mean tracing) can outperform reference counting, or even Rust-style malloc+free. The event loop architecture is also very naturally fitted to user interfaces.

Ignore the HN opinionmongers and build with whatever tools you can work with. You'll be much faster and more flexible, and you'll gain an understanding of what the bottlenecks are, which you can use to do targeted optimisation later on :)

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