I can't help myself. Everytime I see "CSAM" I read it as SCAM. Because thats what the legislation is.
EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
51–60 of 431 posts
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#52The HN attitude on anything touching privacy with a ten foot pole is awkward at best. It's clearly a hard problem and increasingly so. Being dogmatic about privacy regulations without a solution for the abuse caused by those who are open to abusing others seems a little too internet-hippie to be taken seriously in 2022, and that's a little concerning when it's the echo chambers of those best qualified and responsible…
> The HN attitude on anything touching privacy with a ten foot pole is awkward.
Because the power it gives is basically limitless. Once these things are implemented there will be no going back. It only kind of works when the government acts in good faith, and even then not really.
France passed laws against violent demonstrations, they ended up arresting people 200-300km away from Paris because they were suspected to go to a demo and potentially cause problems (because they had swimming googles and yellow vests, which are mandatory, in their cars), even though they didn't commit any crimes at the time. They also passed laws against terrorism, which ended up using them against the yellow vest protesters. Once the pandora's box is open you're fucked, forever, laws will be misused and abused
What's the next step ? 24/7 video monitoring ? Microphones in every room of your house ? That would also prevent crimes, do we want to prevent crime at all cost though ? We could just preemptively all live in jails, that would solve all these problems
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#53I don't think this proposal is quite enough, we can do better to protect the children. The homes of the people who champion this proposal should be thoroughly searched for child abuse materials every week . Naturally, their personal electronic devices should be taken for analysis. I understand this may cause them some inconvenience, but think of the children!
Sorry, privacy from government surveillance applies only to our elected officials, not to you and me. /s
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#54The HN attitude on anything touching privacy with a ten foot pole is awkward at best. It's clearly a hard problem and increasingly so. Being dogmatic about privacy regulations without a solution for the abuse caused by those who are open to abusing others seems a little too internet-hippie to be taken seriously in 2022, and that's a little concerning when it's the echo chambers of those best qualified and responsible…
How does surveillance solve the abuse problem?
The abuse happens in reality and only some of the results are shared over the internet.
This is Zensursula once again, actionism with serious consequences without a real solution.
Countries like China and Russia will gratefully adopt the EU's rationale for its surveillance measures
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#55I don't think this proposal is quite enough, we can do better to protect the children. The homes of the people who champion this proposal should be thoroughly searched for child abuse materials every week . Naturally, their personal electronic devices should be taken for analysis. I understand this may cause them some inconvenience, but think of the children!
Let's not forget banning curtains. Only clean, transparent windows should be allowed.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
nothing, it was in countries jurisdiction, actually people were calling for more central response from EU, but they didn't have any means/rights. Only thing EU did afaik, was EU covid certificates, which I'm eternally grateful for.
Grateful why? They served to restrict our rights.
Because EU recogniced certifcates made travel within the EU possible and, besides some funny rules for border crossings, almost pain free.
Just imagine going from Geany to France would require to get your German vaccination certificate recognised by the French first, as one example.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#57> In its draft law to combat child sexual abuse It seems like the idea is to oppress people so much it takes their minds off of the sexual abuse they suffered in childhood.
I think those of us who value our privacy are going to have to draw a line sooner or later. Do we want to combat child sexual abuse? Yes, but not at any cost. Are there things more important than combating child sexual abuse? Yes, such as our digital privacy. Are we willing to make the job of the authorities more difficult in combating child abuse in the name of privacy? The answer is yes. Those who would give up ess…
Drawing such a line is unfortunately fundamentally incompatible with current western attitudes.
You need to be able to have adult discussions about death and harm that WILL happen at the scales we're talking about. These harms are often easy to calculate. The harms that come from surveillance dragnets are less immediate and harder to calculate. So in addition to be able to have a discussion that we're incapable of having, we also need to have the balls to say "this long term non-specific harm of the surveillance state is worse than a few kids getting abused". We're nowhere near being able to do either of those right now.
Freedom isn't free but the only people who will talk about the cost are extremists of various flavors.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#58It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…
You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#59The HN attitude on anything touching privacy with a ten foot pole is awkward at best. It's clearly a hard problem and increasingly so. Being dogmatic about privacy regulations without a solution for the abuse caused by those who are open to abusing others seems a little too internet-hippie to be taken seriously in 2022, and that's a little concerning when it's the echo chambers of those best qualified and responsible…
I think the problem stems from the fact we don't see abusers being publicly judged routinely, which gives a feeling that those abusers are very rare, and can't justify massive surveillance mainly because it's inefficient against any behavior not widely spread into the population.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#60It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…
You're probably not the first person to ask the question of "but what about parents taking pictures of their naked kids in a pool", I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it if anything to lighten their workload. That doesn't mean it will be perfect but no matter how jaded we all are, nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people.
> I'm sure they plan on having some way of dealing with it
Hilariously naive approach to government overreach.