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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#131

Post by pigeonhole123 »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #95
pigeonhole123 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen or heard anyone complain about Russia banning American companies.

you sure? https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/4/22960739/russia-internet-b... "Russia says it's blocking Facebook in alarming new censorship push" blocking facebook is censorship but blocking RT is defending free speech? nice

I had never heard of RT until now, apparently it's a Putin-controlled TV network. We're supposed to be "nice" with Russia? What a joke.

Edit: for the record I don't like the government blocking anything, but trying to point out the "hypocrisy" of the West like this isn't really very convincing to me. Looking after your own interests is not hypocrisy. Trolls need better ammo than this for the HN audience I think. You have to convince us that invading other countries and torturing PWOs is okay.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#132

Post by [deleted] »

greencore wrote: post #83
sph wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can Russia pressure and disrupt the process when NATO members are the ones most afraid of Putin? Finland's doing this only because of Russia's actions. I can't imagine anybody vetoing Finland's membership. In fact, the more the merrier^Hstronger.

Current Croatia's president Zoran Milanović is planning to veto this. Parliament and PM is against veto.

[deleted]

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#133

Post by vlvdus »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #92
greencore wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current Croatia's president Zoran Milanović is planning to veto this. Parliament and PM is against veto.

What’s his rationale?

It's rather incomprehensible and related to local politics. It's not clear if he can do anything at all so it might be just posturing.

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/62559-milanovic-...

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#134

Post by emteycz »

ssl232 wrote: post #99
phoe-krk wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The former USSR states in Eastern Europe have until now (or until the early 2000s NATO expansion at least) served as a half-decent buffer zone between the West and Russia, and we've had peace. I think you should go and tell Ukrainian people that their country is a buffer zone meant to act as a burnt ground, and they are not allowed to work towards joining the alliances and economic systems that they want to join in…

> I think you should go and tell Ukrainian people that their country is a buffer zone meant to act as a burnt ground, and they are not allowed to work towards joining the alliances and economic systems that they want to join in order to better their livelihoods and stop facing the former-USSR-level of poverty. I didn't say we should dictate policy to Ukraine - they're a sovereign state like the rest of us. That doesn…

Yes, your post is malicious. The peace you speak about is a Russian propaganda lie.

Russian tanks were here - hundreds of kilometers away from their border - until the fall of the Soviet Union. We have peace now, only thanks to NATO.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#135

Post by aa-jv »

mrep wrote: post #117
aa-jv wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Obviously these comments make no sense. Its not so obvious if you've been paying attention to NATO expansion, as compared to NATO promises. NATO bases have been being used to launch crimes against humanity and war crimes (with seeming impunity) for decades - the Russians have good reasons to want NATO to stand down. The West has a long and sordid history of committing war crimes, and then ignoring their war criminal…

So even if NATO completely surrounded Russia, do you think any of said war crimes would actually be committed against Russia directly because if so I want whatever you're smoking. They have 6000 nukes and US + EU combined have 25 times the GDP of Russia. We have everything to lose and practically nothing to gain from attacking Russias worthless economy.

Yes, I do believe that NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity that is bringing much death and destruction and turmoil to the world for the sake of special interests - political and commercial - who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built.

But, I've been paying attention to NATO's war crimes over the last two decades, as well as the immensely evil crimes against humanity committed by the Wests' 5-eyes nations in their disgusting wars. Why haven't you?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#136

Post by throw-ru-938 »

skrebbel wrote: post #28
golergka wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's pan to not let NATO on Russian borders worked out great.

NATO has been on Russian borders for almost 2 decades (and way longer if you include Norway, but that border is arguably too remote to really count). So what plan, exactly?

The Norwegian border may look remote on a map, but it's close to Murmansk which is an extremely important seaport. (Not claiming Norway is a legitimate threat to Russia, just pointing out it's not that remote.)

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#137

Post by kukkeliskuu »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #22
gerikson wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article (in Finnish) shows which Finnish MPs are against joining NATO. That's not implying they are pro- current Russian government. https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000008684257.html

For readers not versed in Finnish politics, the only party with a majority opposed is Vasemmistoliitto (Left Alliance), the rebranded former Finnish Communist/Socialist party.

This is not a neutral characterization. They are not communists in the sense that they would oppose capitalism. A real communist party exists as well. They are left of US democrats, and major driver seems to be identity politics.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#138

Post by stoltzmann »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #126
jhugo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, exactly. It's blatantly obvious that Ukraine is spinning the propaganda machine (and more effectively than Russia when it comes to the international audience, from what I can see), and the US doesn't seem to have any qualms with helping out. Being aware of that that doesn't change the underlying situation though. You can both know that the US is participating in propaganda efforts and also be against Russia's…

i have a problem with one news headline breaking news about "russia massacre in ukraine" where ukraine is the oppressed/underdog and that same news channel half an hour later celebrates how ukranian fighters destroyed X russian tanks and all. if ukraine is fighting tooth and nail against russia(with or without help) they are equals so non-participants should abstain from taking sides. otherwise they are essentially j…

There is a significant difference between Russian soldiers killing civilian population, and Ukrainian soldiers destroying enemy tanks that are invading their country. One is a despicable war crime, and the other one is a heroic act of defence.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#139

Post by Moru »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #93
klausjensen wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has also made written guarantees to protect Finland (and Sweden) during the application process. In practical reality, if Russia were to attack Finland or Sweden now, the answer from NATO would be pretty much the same as if they were already members.

> In practical reality, if Russia were to attack Finland or Sweden now, the answer from NATO would be pretty much the same as if they were already members. Really? Why is this true of Finland but not Ukraine?

Because that would have been agressive from the NATO standpoint. Russia was not having a "war" with Ukraine, from Putins standpoint they were going into their own country to protect their citisens. That would just have played out Putins way to support his narrative that Russia is under attack from the rest of the world.
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