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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was just friendliness towards Russian people? This war is entirely political. Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries.

1420

I had to google it but I think this is a reference to a YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl4R4M9YVfYjjPmILU2Ie1A

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#42
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's pan to not let NATO on Russian borders worked out great.

NATO has been on Russian borders for almost 2 decades (and way longer if you include Norway, but that border is arguably too remote to really count). So what plan, exactly?

Russia has argued that having NATO on its borders is a threat. Talk about missiles within range of Moscow and so on. Obviously these comments make no sense. But Russian domestic politics is always using a narrative of being a victim and having risk of being invaded. The Second World War doesn’t exist in Russian storytelling. The great patriotic war on the other hand, conveniently started in the 40s.

The Finnish border isn’t that much closer to any important parts of Russia than the Baltic states already were. The strategic difference is perhaps mostly in how difficult it might be for Russia to attempt what they did to Ukraine on a Baltic state. The scenario is a swift invasion and an annexation being fait accompli and a threat of Nuclear use if any NATO countries come to their defense under Article 5. That would have been a sticky situation for NATO in the past (at least we thought so until we saw their military performance lately) but will be less so with Finland in the alliance.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#43
One has to appreciate the irony that Putin's attempt to reduce the size of a hypothetical¹ border between NATO and Russia will probably result in actually doubling it.

¹Hypothetical because there was no realistic chance that Ukraine would have been allowed to join.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was just friendliness towards Russian people? This war is entirely political. Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries.

> Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries. What are you basing this on? https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/ This seems to show strong support for the Russian government and this analysis seems to suggest that few Russians are concerned about Russians crimes and as many as half are very supportive of horrific violence against people they see as nonhuman. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14…

Those are polls in a fascist state. People will say what they think they need to say to stay safe.

But you're not wrong, lots of people just went full nazi

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#45
post #2

There was some discussion on plausible NATO membership of Finland and Sweden. At that point the disucssion was based on guestimates from media. But now it's official. This is not the NATO membership application, but a statement from the political leadership in Finland that they support and suggest parliament proceeds with the application process with maximum urgency. The President and Prime Minister of Finland have p…

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

I think Germany said they will be under protection from NATO as soon as they start the procedure.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATO has been on Russian borders for almost 2 decades (and way longer if you include Norway, but that border is arguably too remote to really count). So what plan, exactly?

> So what plan, exactly? That's a question on everyone's mind about this whole invasion. I guess I should have said “idiotic justification as portrayed by Russian propaganda” instead of “plan”.

i am not an american, nor russian. i come from a third world country far from this drama. to me, "russian propaganda" is the same as "american propaganda" which demonizes the other and calls their version as the "ultimate truth".

don't americans/west see their media/actions as what it is, propaganda aganinst russia? blocking RT across america/EU is seen as protecting free speech but god forbid if russia reciprocates with banning american companies? then its an action against free speech, again?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#47
post #2

There was some discussion on plausible NATO membership of Finland and Sweden. At that point the disucssion was based on guestimates from media. But now it's official. This is not the NATO membership application, but a statement from the political leadership in Finland that they support and suggest parliament proceeds with the application process with maximum urgency. The President and Prime Minister of Finland have p…

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

How can Russia pressure and disrupt the process when NATO members are the ones most afraid of Putin? Finland's doing this only because of Russia's actions.

I can't imagine anybody vetoing Finland's membership. In fact, the more the merrier^Hstronger.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#48
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's pan to not let NATO on Russian borders worked out great.

NATO has been on Russian borders for almost 2 decades (and way longer if you include Norway, but that border is arguably too remote to really count). So what plan, exactly?

It's really about the extent of the border and it's proximity to the Russian heartland. Adding Finland doubles NATO's border with Russia and brackets St. Petersburg.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#49

Look at the map, the NATO doesn't have much land borders with Russia. With Finland joining... the length of land border will multiply. This will surely pose a challenge.

There is much talk about Russia not wanting Finland in NATO but why would NATO want Finland in NATO with yet another expensive border to patrol. "Buffer states" work both ways.

I would argue that NATO already has to care about that border. Finland joining NATO just makes that reality easier to handle.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#50
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For readers not versed in Finnish politics, the only party with a majority opposed is Vasemmistoliitto (Left Alliance), the rebranded former Finnish Communist/Socialist party.

Also important to note that the members of the Left Alliance that oppose NATO are primarily skeptical of NATO, not supportive of Russia.

This is a critical detail. The Left Alliance and the Green League parties are perhaps the two most skeptical parties towards Russia in Finland.
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