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Windows Terminal Source Code

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Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#131

Post by cryptonector »

naikrovek wrote: post #123
cryptonector wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- it's more work when you're trying to stop data exfiltration / espionnage - privacy -- I've no idea what the telemetry says about me today, and I certainly don't know what they'll make it look for tomorrow - privacy -- even if the telemetry is fine, maybe information about my usage patterns might be more valuable to me than it might seem at first glance - performance -- every app, every library, all sending out tele…

no one cares what you do. telemetry is only viewed in aggregate. it doesn't make sense, nor is it a good use of time, to scrutinize the telemetry of a single user for any reason. you keep on living in your town where the people don't have fingerprints or names, and the shoes leave no tracks. I'll be over here getting things done, because doing good work is far more important than avoiding being seen.

I gave you more than just privacy arguments. Can you address those too?

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#132

Post by twaw »

justin66 wrote: post #124
naikrovek wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Terminal team is very aware of this code, and are not able to use it due to how Casey licensed it. They aren't even allowed to look at it. Casey deliberately licensed it as GPL so that Microsoft could not use it, actually. That's his choice, of course. The Terminal team have a path forward to implement strong performance improvements based on techniques like those Casey described, and are working on those improve…

> They aren't even allowed to look at it. Casey deliberately licensed it as GPL so that Microsoft could not use it, actually. Why does Microsoft prevent its developers from reading GPL-licensed code?

M$ is long time GPL hater. They use lot of GPL code, but stil hate it, because they cannot make profit from it. Commercial companies like BSD-style licenses, because they are free as in "free work".

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#133

Post by ZeroClickOk »

DHowett wrote: post #52
aneutron wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an excellent blog post by the product manager I believe that explains the history of the CMD command, how terminal emulation works in Windows, and the work they were doing. The way I understand this project is essentially "an interface" to the new ConPTY they developed (which IIRC is closed source, naturally). That doesn't make it any lesser. I've used it since a build was available, 4 years ago or something.…

So, one of the cool things about this repository (Hi! I’m the engineering lead for the Terminal/Console/… team. I’m biased!) is that it also contains the source for ConPTY and the rest of the Windows console host[1]. Every change made here flows back into Windows, and vice-versa. In this repo, you can find some of our terrible secrets and workarounds and debugging hooks and perhaps even some explanation for why thing…

Nice to see you here, I feel in love for WT and I can't live without it! Keep going the great work!

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#134

Post by zamadatix »

briHass wrote: post #113

Though I've been enjoying WT, there are some limitations that have bit me: 1) As a 'Store' app, it can be a pain to install in locked-down corpo networks that block Windows Store. Winget can be a workaround, or you can extract the exe from packages, but an installer would be nice. 2) Since it's a UWP app, there's no way to launch it as another user-identity (i.e. runas)

The GitHub releases section has the msix installer package too.

Terminal itself can't be runas but e.g. cmd.exe or pwsh.exe inside of it can be.

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#135

Post by JadeNB »

judge2020 wrote: post #127
userbinator wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why the makers of an app aren’t entitled to seeing how the app is used for the people who opt to use it. They are entitled to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING beyond, if it is commercial software, my payment. I want them to know What the fuck happened to just TELLING THEM!? Oh, that's right, they didn't want to listen because they'd rather take complete control of your machine, forcing you into what they want, and mone…

> What the fuck happened to just TELLING THEM!? People don't say anything. They use the software, and then when features are deprecated they come screaming for you to continue supporting it. It's a waste of resources if they have to create an 'RFC' for every time they want to deprecate a feature due to development workload, when they could just have it report usage of features within the app. It's literally just how…

> It's literally just how many people use specific features in the code they're writing; they're not watching what you type, they're not uploading a log of window titles like early blizzard anticheat software[0].

The problem is that, if it's not that now, it will, or at least might, be that eventually. It's a lot easier to make sure that an app isn't phoning home at all, than that it's phoning home with only approved information.

For example, it's a huge problem with browser extensions that, even if they start off well designed to respect a user's privacy and to gather information only in ways that are essential to their function, and that even if the original developer remains true to that mission, still if the extension becomes popular the developer will be prey to a lot of pressure from bad actors who want to buy the rights to the extension precisely so that they can expand the data-gathering into the realm that you implicitly acknowledge is unacceptable.

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#136

Post by kingcharles »

throwaway67743 wrote: post #88
kingcharles wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the same reason they've opened sourced some other components lately: community feedback and updates. There are a bunch of bugs in Windows core that I can't even get anyone to look at (and I'm an MVP). With these little bits they've opened sourced you can actively participate in helping the team fix the bugs, and add features as needed. I know the team on Terminal had a whole muddle of problems to do with ren…

Why pay employees to fix bugs when some random can fix it for free? It makes perfect corporate business sense. (Not saying its a good thing, but it does make sense from a business POV)

That's definitely the cynical way of looking at it :) And sure, if they threw more bodies at the problem they would definitely catch some of them. But in my experience the community has found and fixed some weird bugs that probably would have been hard to bubble up through normal channels, or would have just been deemed too low priority under normal circumstances.

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#137

Post by Schopenhauer01 »

briHass wrote: post #113

Though I've been enjoying WT, there are some limitations that have bit me: 1) As a 'Store' app, it can be a pain to install in locked-down corpo networks that block Windows Store. Winget can be a workaround, or you can extract the exe from packages, but an installer would be nice. 2) Since it's a UWP app, there's no way to launch it as another user-identity (i.e. runas)

Choco is IMO the best way to install apps on windows right now.

`choco install microsoft-windows-terminal`

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#139

Post by kramerger »

Note that this is not the source code for the command shell utility (command.com, cmd.exe, etc). This is a new (-ish) project for creating a modern terminal

It works really nice with WSL, for example I have configured each OS to have its default font and wallpaper :)

Re: Windows Terminal Source Code

#140

Post by naikrovek »

dundarious wrote: post #121
naikrovek wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Terminal team is very aware of this code, and are not able to use it due to how Casey licensed it. They aren't even allowed to look at it. Casey deliberately licensed it as GPL so that Microsoft could not use it, actually. That's his choice, of course. The Terminal team have a path forward to implement strong performance improvements based on techniques like those Casey described, and are working on those improve…

I think Casey's somewhat caustic exasperation can be a major distraction at times, especially if you are exposed to it the first time you listen to him. But I have to say, his frustration is justified. He has valid complaints about almost the entire industry and educational system, so it's not just directed at Microsoft, and certainly not just at the individual grunts working there (almost all of use are grunts). I d…

> why hasn't Microsoft leadership, running a multi-billion dollar company for decades, already devoted appropriate resources to create an essentially perfect terminal/console, something so discrete and simple and fixed in feature-set?

competing priorities, lack of customer interest, lack of need, desire to keep backwards compatibility, additional support workload, probable belief that they had a good enough terminal, they couldn't find the right people (the project lead for the new terminal was hired into Microsoft specifically for that position, leading me to believe they didn't have anyone internally who was qualified or interested enough to take the job), and because a fully compatible terminal is not trivial to make.

they can't go back in time and make it, they can only change what they're doing now, and Terminal is getting better all the time.

complaint about behavior that is no longer happening is just masturbation, plain and simple.

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