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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#561
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially since the pandemic showed that remote work mostly works.

Is there any evidence WFH doesn't work? I've only ever seen WFH being awesome for everything.

I have no clue about formal studies, but the fact that many profit maximizing companies are trying to push people back to the office is at least a hint that there might be something in it for them?

Especially since most rank-and-file employees seem to prefer WFH, we can assume that the push back to the office isn't a boondoggle for them. Just the opposite.

Companies are competing fiercely for labour. Wages in the tech sector are really high compared to the rest of the economy. Offering the option of WFH is a major draw for many people. There's not much regulatory intervention either way (and if anything it's in the direction of making offices more cumbersome to run). Office space also costs a lot of money to lease or buy and to run.

So there's lots and lots of market pressure on companies to figure out how to make WFH work.

Just like moving from artisanal workshops to factories required major re-organisations of how work is done, and how companies also needed to re-organise their white collar work to really reap the rewards of moving from paper shuffling to Word/Outlook/Excel jockeying, I expect WFH to be no different.

Not all production of physical goods moved to factories. I expect at least some in-office work to remain.

I don't know to what extent existing companies will be able to fully capitalise on WFH, and to what extent this will need newly founded companies.

(From my personal experience, I can tell you that everyone in a team being remote seems to work well enough, but if you are the only guy working from home in timezone X and the rest of the team is mostly working from the office in timezone X-6, that doesn't work so well.

But that's a much more extreme case than what most employees are asking to keep.)

In any case, because of all the factors I outlined in the third paragraph, I expect WFH vs in-office work to shake out in a fairly free market way over the next few years.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#562
post #412
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2.5x is completely ridiculous to expect - that’s going to be far below rental payments in most places that anybody would want to live. Its definitely not the norm. It’s obtainable in some areas of the northeast like Pittsburgh and the Midwest. But usually the catch is property taxes are outrageous. The funny thing is: you just explained why property taxes are basically 'free'. (They are basically the best tax. Twea…

That is not true. Property taxes are based on relative property values within a region such as a county or school district. Here in NY, appraisals are done at the county level and then that determines the amount you pay to the school district, town, county, etc. If budgets don’t increase, then your property tax stays the same even if your house is worth more. There are towns in my area with 1 million dollar houses th…

Oh, that's weird. I assumed property tax was set at a fixed percentage of home value per year?

Thanks for explaining!

Though to be clear, most of what I explained still applies: if you are looking to buy real estate, the expected burden of property taxes will already be baked into the market price. Almost no matter how the taxes are set.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#563

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

I got ZERO raise this past year and boy let me tell you, it really pissed me off. I didn't feel I wasn't making enough until that happened.

I haven't gotten a raise in probably 10 years. But realistically I make a lot more than most developers where I live (Los Angeles) and there would be no reason for my company to give me a raise when I'm probably the highest paid non-sales person where I work (and often have been). So I'm ok with it.

Just got an extra side gig for 20-25% hours per weeks so it's like getting a 50% raise and feels great.

Although seeing how many $500k jobs exist in Silicon Valley makes me think I should spend more time grinding leetcode.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your work in tech supposed to hold a sacred scalar linear multiple of the average labor cost ( read: salary of people who produce food and goods) of life’s necessities? So many entitled people arguing for an economic caste system… Arguing that your wage should always match or beat inflation is arguing for defacto permanent income inequality. You’re literally saying your work is always the same amount more valuable…

"So many entitled people arguing for an economic caste system…" I don't see that anywhere in my argument. "Arguing that your wage should always match or beat inflation is arguing for defacto permanent income inequality." Do you have an alternative approach? I have not heard any mainstream argument for setting all salaries/wages to be equal. You have to define income inequality and then determine what level of inequal…

Some stores are evening paying store managers $200k per year now (read it in an article about a month ago).

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#565
post #173
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by underpaid and overpaid? Plenty of people want to become teachers and nurses and doctors (or veterinaries or musicians or artists etc), knowing full well how low the pay is.

> underpaid and overpaid? there's two "meaning" to being underpaid; 1) the work being done is captured by another party, and thus underpaid to the worker doing the work. An extreme example is slavery - they are underpaid. 2) the second meaning of underpaid is the perception from other people that the profession is producing value for society, but the payer of that work (usually tax payers) is not compensating for the…

I can understand the first notion: the 'price' offered is not enough to clear the market. In your example, there are fewer people who voluntarily would be doing slave labour for slave wages, than willing employers.

The second is a bit nebulous. I think it's mostly down to social desirability bias: people say stuff that sounds good, but doesn't make much sense.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what a weird statement. Would doctors be as valuable without modern tech or medicine? I don't view any group as some sort of elite class, gracing the rest of us with their existence.

> what a weird statement. Would doctors be as valuable without modern tech or medicine? I don't view any group as some sort of elite class, gracing the rest of us with their existence. False equivalence, and this is akin to one asking if you would be where you are if electricity ever got invented. It's all built on someone's else's shoulders, and the fact that you can say this underscores exactly what I mean. They sa…

It is not a false equivalence. Doctors are not scalable. Is the physicality of it increase the value? The inventor of antibiotics has saved more lives than any single doctor. I might agree that a lot of developers are working on trivial things, but that doesn't take away from the fact that all modern advances in areas that save lives have software engineers directly involved somewhere in the chain to make that advance.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#567
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think the inflation rate is under-reported? Do you see any concern with other people making more money that would not be reflected in an (accurately reported) inflation rate?

> What makes you think the inflation rate is under-reported I hope I don't come across as a conspiracy theorist here... but based on my own experience and also how CPI is calculated. CPI constantly shifts out items to 'mimic consumer behavior' which coincidentally also makes inflation look lower. As someone who hasn't really changed much, our grocery bills went way, way over any reported number. It is probably close…

> No way! If everyone could make 100k a year and we could have 2018 prices back...that would damn near be a utopia.

OK, it's good we agree on that.

About inflation: CPI has some aspects that underreport inflation and some that overreport inflation.

This is actually a serious topic for economists, not just for in conspiracy theory nuts. Though you can imagine that the former focus on different aspects than the latter.

I can write a bit more about this from an economics perspective. Some interesting keywords to look into:

  - hedonic adjustment
  - gdp deflator
  - Big Mac index
Slight tangent:

Partially because inflation is such a 'subjective' topic, and requires judgement about how much better or worse the new iPhone is compared to last year's model, my preferred model for central bank policy is nominal gdp (level) targeting instead of inflation targeting.

Nominal GDP is the same as total nominal income, and basically just counts up every dollar everyone in the economy spends/earns. No judgement about the quality of iPhones necessary.

(Alternatively, you could target total gross nominal wages. It's almost the same in practice, because the ratio of total wages / gdp is fairly steady over time in the short run.)

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#568
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only America's productive cities did not ban building more housing..

American cities don't ban housing construction (the one exception being San Francisco/Bay Area). Every other major US metro (literally everyone except SF) has been experiencing a massive housing construction boom for the past ten years straight now.

Construction boom compared to what? Previous decades saw much, much more housing being built.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#569
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We see similar problems to SF here in Somerville and Cambridge, "Boston saw a historic building boom during the seven years (2014-2021) that former mayor Marty Walsh, a former construction union leader, occupied City Hall. The city’s skyline transformed, and continues to do so. Tens of thousands of new units of housing were created. An entire neighborhood rose from the ground." - https://www.boston.com/news/politic…

> Boston certainly fits that model -- it's price problems have nothing to do with any shortage in construction (construction is booming) or 'housing ban' (obviously there's no meaningful ban, because construction has already happened in large numbers for over a decade) This is poor reasoning. The fact that some housing got built does not mean that there weren't significant impediments to building it, many of which st…

> Building more housing is the only long-term solution.

Well, that are migration away from supply constrained cities.

Problem is that America's most productive cities are the most supply constrained.

People contribute less to GDP, earn less for themselves, pay fewer income taxes etc, in those other areas where they can still afford to live.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#570
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only America's productive cities did not ban building more housing..

If only Americans reignited their imagination and didn't just settle on having a few big cities in opposite corners of the country. America is huge. There's land everywhere. Start dreaming. China has 160 cities with 1+ million people. We have 10. Granted, there is a massive population difference, but we should most definitely have more than 10. There are major issues when you only have a few cities with the bulk of t…

Why is concentrating in cities a problem?

From an environmental point of view, it seems nearly ideal if most humans would live in a few big cities, than more of the rest of the earth could be given back to nature.

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