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Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#131

Post by hattmall »

Mezzie wrote: post #92
ipnon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you're implying everyone who disagrees with you is trying to exploit young people. It's the same rhetoric as the politicians who drafted the bill. We need to have open minds in civil society, some humility to anticipate desenting opinions, and careful fingers to type out comments with.

Yes. I have some concerns about this bill and tactic. For example, even if it worked as intended, would we see an uptick of problems in 18 year olds' use of algorithmic social media as they're suddenly away from home/out from under their parents' supervision and given access to a bunch of exploiting content? It's similar to how the first two years of driving are more dangerous regardless of when those 2 years take pl…

The thing is that there's no benefit to algorithmic social media, so erring on the side of caution is responsible. And we see a clear and extremely reasonable threat. The ideal benefit is that teens won't form a social media addiction.

Algorithmic social media uses the exact same principles as gambling addictions. Teens are much more subject to these exploitations and we don't let them sit in casinos all day and loot boxes have seen some regulation as well.

Social media may be even worse because the gamble is far less tangible, it's cost in the surface is only time and the reward is purely an emotional one.

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#132

Post by bbor »

_gabe_ wrote: post #19
JohnWhigham wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing is that I guarantee a lot of the parents in support of dumb shit like this lose their minds at sexual education classes in public schools. Just shows that most people don't have the IQ necessary to be competent parents.

If you lose your mind about a sexual education class, I agree that's misguided, but saying they have a low IQ because of that? Maybe a low EQ if they can't control their emotions, but it's absurd to automatically equate emotions with intelligence. We've all acted stupidly because we've been emotionally invested in an idea. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best, and probably indicative of a low IQ at worst ;) A…

No post body was provided.

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#133

Post by aasasd »

oneoff786 wrote: post #116
aasasd wrote: post #80

> the bill only applies to social media platforms with more that 1M “account holders” (defined as people who access a “social media account,” an undefined term) “operating in Minnesota.” I'm always baffled by these nonsensical and arbitrary cutoffs. Obviously the proper approach is to define a function, either linear or logarithmic. In this case it's a reverse proportion: if you serve 500000 people in Minnesota, you…

I’m baffled that you see a simple easy to understand rule and think we should spice it up with a logarithmic curve. The goal is simply to say that big social media companies must comply and small niche ones are ok. It is arbitrary. It’s also probably fine. Note it’s not 1M people in Minnesota. It’s 1M users anywhere.

I see that political scientists have entered the thread. Never will the nation have sensible and stable laws if a major consideration in their making is the continued employment of politicians and political scientists, so they can keep adjusting the figures in each law every year.

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#134

Post by aasasd »

encoderer wrote: post #33

Two things are true: 1. this bill is trash, it couldn’t be enforced, it’s pandering. 2. Social media as it has existed for the last 5-10 years is harmful for teenagers. Instagram is making teens depressed and suicidal. TikTok videos have people celebrating mental illness like Tourette’s and has brainwashed impressionable kids into believing they too have tics or multiple personalities or Tourette’s. Something needs t…

> Instagram is making teens depressed and suicidal.

Pretty sure a whole lot of things are making adults depressed and suicidal.

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#135

Post by danShumway »

Mezzie wrote: post #92
ipnon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you're implying everyone who disagrees with you is trying to exploit young people. It's the same rhetoric as the politicians who drafted the bill. We need to have open minds in civil society, some humility to anticipate desenting opinions, and careful fingers to type out comments with.

Yes. I have some concerns about this bill and tactic. For example, even if it worked as intended, would we see an uptick of problems in 18 year olds' use of algorithmic social media as they're suddenly away from home/out from under their parents' supervision and given access to a bunch of exploiting content? It's similar to how the first two years of driving are more dangerous regardless of when those 2 years take pl…

> 1.) They lie, so either that's going to be commonly known/accepted OR a giant millstone around the neck of any existing company.

You hint at an under-mentioned point here: we want laws that encourage companies to be aware of their users and to protect them, and an unintended consequence of laws that say, "you can continue operating as normal as long as you don't know any of your users are kids" is that companies hear, "don't make any moderation or safety features that might open you up to that kind of accusation."

Of course demanding that companies know all of their users perfectly is an obvious privacy violation with obviously even worse consequences. But even though it's better than hooking up ID verification to social networks, "pretend teenagers don't use the Internet" isn't harmless policy, it's not just that there are popups people click through.

----

I personally feel like this kind of "don't knowingly target" stuff is often counterproductive to keeping kids safe online. It means that when they hang out, almost every space they enter is going to be specifically designed for adults, and will systematically ignore the fact that they exist or might have unique needs -- because ignoring that kids exist and removing safeguards is now the safest thing for the website to do.

On a really small scale, think back to when Youtube got targeted for programming "aimed at kids". One short-term result I saw from that was animators/streamers trying to deliberately make their streams less child-appropriate so they wouldn't be swept up. It's anecdotal and I'd like to see more research on it, but I vaguely wonder if the result of these crackdowns isn't often to make social sites more dangerous for kids.

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#136

Post by _-david-_ »

veilrap wrote: post #75
RobertRoberts wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which do you prefer? 1) We should have school districts teaching _Republican_ ideals because the local schools support it. 2) We should have school districts teaching _Democrat_ ideals because the local schools support it. 3) No to both 1 and 2. You simply can't have it both ways, therefore the reasonable option is to say no to both.

The problem with this is that Republicans in power today equate things like evolution with Democrat ideals. When facts get labeled as bias it's impossible to remove both from the classroom and still have a functional classroom.

Can you name two Republicans who "equate things like evolution with Democrat ideals"?

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#137

Post by freemint »

_Nat_ wrote: post #113
encoderer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids will lie about their age. They already do. You aren't supposed to sign up until you are 13. There are lots of pre-teens on Social Media. Stopping that would mean a KYC process for every social media signup. I don't think that works either.

From the bill's text, as quoted by the article: > (b) The social media platform is liable to an individual account holder who received user-generated content through a social media algorithm while the individual account holder was under the age of 18 and was using the individual account holder’s own account, if the social media platform knew or had reason to know that the individual account holder was under the age o…

If they only upload videos taken with the selfie cam which look like a minor and seem to have a pre puberty voice and their locations are sometimes in Minnesota would that be enough to warrant: "had reason to know that the individual account holder was under 18 years"?

If so that implies social network will have to scan every video for the age range of participants.

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#139

Post by ineedasername »

colechristensen wrote: post #68
encoderer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids will lie about their age. They already do. You aren't supposed to sign up until you are 13. There are lots of pre-teens on Social Media. Stopping that would mean a KYC process for every social media signup. I don't think that works either.

I certainly lied about my age to get my Hotmail account (which dates me fairly well). I'm sure there are plenty enough kids who accurately represented their age between 13-18 to make this quite enforceable. I probably said I was 13 when I was 12, or something close enough. Do a PSA campaign telling parents to make sure their kids' social media apps correctly represent their age to keep them safe. Would work well enou…

>Hotmail account (which dates me fairly well).

Well, you might have been a precocious 2-year old Microsoft fan in 2012. So, depending on your timezone, you should be in bed young man! And what do you think you were doing on HN at the young age of 1?

Re: Minnesota Wants to Ban Under-18s from User-Generated Content Services

#140

Post by freemint »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #17
JohnWhigham wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing is that I guarantee a lot of the parents in support of dumb shit like this lose their minds at sexual education classes in public schools. Just shows that most people don't have the IQ necessary to be competent parents.

Which do you prefer? 1) We should have school districts teaching _Republican_ ideals because the local schools support it. 2) We should have school districts teaching _Democrat_ ideals because the local schools support it. 3) No to both 1 and 2. You simply can't have it both ways, therefore the reasonable option is to say no to both.

Well i could wish for correct ideals to be taught which happen to be overwhelmingly not the republican ones.
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