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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has 50-60 cities with 1+ million people. You may be conflating administrative boundaries with cities.

You may be conflating metro areas with cities. If you are, it's not a helpful distinction in either case, and not the point I am trying to illustrate. For example, I could live in Wise County in Texas, and be technically counted towards the population of the Dallas/FW/Arlington Metro, but I would never dream of driving into Dallas from there daily for services, schooling, or work, and if I did, I would be severely di…

If I were you, for your argument I would use population densities.

But you can’t bucket a million people living in thousands of square miles as the same as a million locked together in a suburban sprawl connected with rail and roads. Look at London. Take away the boroughs and what is really left?

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

This is something I don't think gets discussed enough. In my first 10 years of career I basically doubled my salary, by moving every 2-3 years, but I also now know I am pretty much hitting a plateau, anytime I talk with recruiters and talk about the salary I'd like to move which is about 10-20% (which is pretty reasonable given the benefits I got now) then people express reservations. Some people will end up making 2…

You'll need to spend some time on levels.fyi

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#543
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were true, companies would be going out of business, but instead they're thriving. Why are Europeans so underpaid? Are their tech companies not thriving?

Scale and culture. For scale, see https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala... for more. There just isn't a lot of money in only a local market, and trying to accommodate a dozen countries worth of languages, culture and standards is far more difficult than one. For culture, a lot of European countries feel it is justified developers earn similar to other white collar jobs. It doesn't have the "hei…

Sounds like a failure to embrace meritocracy.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#544
post #266
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Why the knock on internal tooling? If internal tooling helps a value-add position go 10% faster, that's worth a lot. And most likely it isn't just one position, it's many.

They didn't say internal doesn't add any value at all. They said it's more obviously justifiable with the product people, and it is. Given that total salaries paid per year is almost always small in proportion to revenue at a successful company, tooling cannot add anywhere near as much to the bottom line, even at the extreme where it reduced time to market to 5 seconds.

> even at the extreme where it reduced time to market to 5 seconds.

If this is your impression of internal tooling, then your internal tooling team is terrible.

The places I've worked with good internal tooling teams provided a dramatic decrease in time to delivery. Automated failovers? Don't have to write it, it's in internal tooling. Automatically rebalancing traffic across datacenters? Already in the framework. Service discovery? You already know.

I could go down the list, but with a good internal tooling team, the only thing I've ever had to worry about was my app's business purpose. I don't have to muck with configuring monitoring, or load balancers, or getting authentication to talk to another app, or how to get a database, or etc.

The difference in time to delivery is dramatic.

Places I've worked without internal tooling take like 2 weeks just to get infra for a static HTML site.

The places I've worked with bad internal tooling take 3 weeks to do the same thing, because you'll spend a week arguing about whether the tooling works.

The places I've worked with good internal tooling take like 15 minutes to do it. I spend longer reviewing an MR than I do deploying infra.

Tooling is a huge part of the reason companies throw fistfuls of money at clouds. They could get compute on-demand cheaper from Leaseweb or OVH or hundreds of other companies, but they don't. They pay the premium for AWS or Azure or GCP, and it's because of the tooling.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#545

A solid article, but it should have commented on single family home prices. If you use the 3x salary rule, a $120k a year techie couldn't afford the median home price in America ($374k). A software engineer in San Francisco would have to make $526k a year in cold hard cash to reasonably afford the median single family home ($1.58 million). Talking about six figure salaries as if they are unquestionably upper-middle c…

Why would a single person need to buy a 3 bedroom home (the median American home size)? A household with two $120k earners can very comfortably afford a $1 million home at current mortgage rates.

There are a number of possible reasons:

1. A single person likes to have guests stay over and wants to offer them a room and also have a home office for working from home

2. There are no "starter" homes available in their area. This is what my spouse and I hit in Los Angeles. We tried a condo and ended up suing the person who sold it to us because it was so noisy as to be unlivable. (And it turns out most of the condos in the area are like that.) But there were no small homes available on the market to purchase. When one did show up, they were usually purchased immediately for cash for more than asking price, torn down, and a new home built lot-line to lot-line put in its place and sold for 3x the cost. Eventually, I got some bonuses that allowed us to purchase a larger home so we did that. Now we have a guest room and an office which has worked out great during the pandemic. I'm really glad we did it.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#546

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

> Meanwhile for those that have the time and willpower to grind leetcode, they know they can command a 20-40% raise every few years. One thing a lot of people forget about this 20-40% number is: It's only true early in your career. It might be hard for younger folks to believe, but you will all hit a ceiling and plateau. My first job hop was for +50%! The next one was about 40%, the next one 15%, and so on. Now, with…

There probably is a plateau, but I was surprised at how high it is. My first job was for $8/hour. Next was for $20/hour. The one after that was $32K/year. Then I went to college. Then it was $66K/year. Then I did a startup for nothing. Then it was $100K/year salary, but TC was about $160K/year. Got up to $300K over the course of that job. Then another startup for nothing. Then back for $630K/year, and it went up to about $900K/year with stock appreciation. Probably less now with the market crash, but still a lot more than I ever thought was possible as a plain old employee.

You do have to interview & negotiate well, and keep your skills sharp, and I'd bet that I'm about at the ceiling of what's possible as an IC. But now I've transitioned into management and all those startup exec positions are theoretically open. :-) There is always somebody making buttloads of money in the economy; if you want it, figure out who it is and how to make yourself useful to them.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some doctors earn around one million USD a year in the U.S, that's money that makes insurance more expensive and unaffordable for everyone. You're seriously not comparing yourself to physicians in level of importance in Society, are you?! As I said, after COVID we got a real wake up call of who mattered, and Nurses and Physicians deserve every penny that they get, its the system that is broken: see Stanford nurse s…

what a weird statement. Would doctors be as valuable without modern tech or medicine? I don't view any group as some sort of elite class, gracing the rest of us with their existence.

> what a weird statement. Would doctors be as valuable without modern tech or medicine? I don't view any group as some sort of elite class, gracing the rest of us with their existence.

False equivalence, and this is akin to one asking if you would be where you are if electricity ever got invented. It's all built on someone's else's shoulders, and the fact that you can say this underscores exactly what I mean.

They save lives, you are one of many who push code that could potentially be of use to use to someone who does is not the same thing.

It's only weird because it conflicts with your copium, you two are not the same thing and society doesn't rely on you as heavily as you think you do.

> One of the fun things about MDs and dentists is that it's one of the only professions where the supply of those people is strictly controlled by the people who are in danger of being replaced.

I'm aware of the AMA's practices, I did my undergrad with pre-meds; I know how the system works, That still doesn't change what I said, you weren't working doubles in an ER during COVID. You were likely at home working normal hours and on Zoom calls, you really can't compare the two professions at all.

Just because the medical system itself is broken doesn't detract from what I said either, it's entirely broken and I explained my situation that I feel best reflects that with an anecdote, too.

> No one deserves anything beyond basic human rights. I have great respect for the work done by doctors, but other countries pay doctors far less and still achieve better health outcomes. As a society, are we getting a good value for our money?

See above.

And just so it's clear the same goes for software developers; I think we can all agree that most coding interviews are a waste of time, and as most get more experience under their belt they are less tolerant of the absurdity of it all. That doesn't diminish the talent that exists in this Industry.

Personally speaking it's something that I'm dreading about coming back into the tech Industry; I come from startup land as a founder, and my only interview at a tech firm was just the telling me about what project I'd be working on if I decided to join, they didn't even probe me for anything as I got head-hunted and they already did their research on me before they ever reached out.

I'm pretty sure that will be the case this time around and sitting around white-boarding sounds like a total waste without more than 7 years in the Industry to me, too.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If my work was significantly taxed above $100K, I'd stop earning more at that point because work is very stressful to me and I'm not going to do it if I don't get the benefit (now I earn slightly less than $100k, but also live and work in Europe). Everybody would lose - I'd pay less taxes overall. Perfect. You get a less stressful life. And you working less creates job opportunities for others. Other people win jus…

No, I don't get a less stressful life, I'd get a much more stressful one. One, maybe two years I earn a lot, and then 2-5 years next to nothing. I must plan my life according to the needs of my mental health, not fiscal calendars of some social engineers who can't understand that one size doesn't fit all and can seriously hurt some people (yeah, even those who earn a lot some years are still just humans, and sometime…

> Sorry - nothing personal, but I really, truly hate every bit of your idea of the world.

Just so it's clear, I don't agree with what he said. I stand by my comments, but I don't agree that we should coax any of what the poster has said either.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#549
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're not going to get paid SV salaries working remotely (yes, I work remotely because living in CA is not appealing to me).

I do and so does my whole team. I live in Seattle but a lot of our guys are in the south making six figure salaries. Not being paid the average salary seems to be fud I’ve heard from anti-remote people.

The article lists out the average software developer salary as $120k. I have no idea if this is true (it sounds low to me), but I don't hear people saying that $120k remote jobs don't exist...

People are saying $350k remote jobs don't exist. Which obviously is untrue (go work at Airbnb). But they're exceedingly rare.

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