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Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#321

Post by zx85wes »

dane-pgp wrote: post #291
denton-scratch wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the only ones breaking the rules Of course not. Rules get broken all the time. But as the years went by, I came to realise that the EU didn't embody the principles it claimed to stand for (and of which I approved). > Leaving the EU doesn't help make Hungary (for example) become any less authoritarian Moderating the atavistic instincts of other countries isn't a good reason for being in a political union. > Boris Jo…

Thank you for your honest answers. For what it's worth, I don't think you're a bad person for voting the way you did. > the EU didn't embody the principles it claimed to stand for (and of which I approved). But is it possible that you were holding it to a higher standard than you hold your own country to? > Moderating the atavistic instincts of other countries isn't a good reason for being in a political union. Turni…

Not fair really to blame Greece. Everyone knew the euro was going to cause huge problems. Romano Prodi (president of the European Commission at the time) : 'I am sure the euro will oblige us to introduce a new set of economic policy instruments. It is politically impossible to propose that now. But some day there will be a crisis and new instruments will be created'. They wanted to use the problems they created to force through more centralisation.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#322

Post by belter »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #311
belter wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there you have the press release of today: "Questions and Answers –New rules to fight child sexual abuse" https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_... Exactly as predicted in this thread it's a "think of the children" and at the same time also as mentioned by others in this thread, mandated obligations but preparing for the excuse of "we never actually asked for this way of doing it" "Does the…

> It will be probably 6 to 12 months before this is extended to "Terrorism" Alright, I'll take that bet if you got actually got the conviction to stake your HN-account.

If this proposal is ever approved, I am willing to bet you a dinner at any restaurant of your choice, that within two years it will be extended to track terrorism and other subversive activities. After all the principle of mandating all providers, to monitor all communications for specific behaviors will be set by law...

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#323

Post by d0mine »

emteycz wrote: post #171
d0mine wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Telegram is mentioned (which according to HN has no security)? Is Signal mentioned?

There's no well-known millionaire founder behind Signal

I thought Signal has some three letter agency with a budget that has a dozen digits behind it.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#324

Post by GaylordTuring »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #119
GaylordTuring wrote: post #83

In theory (and in practice today), I’m strongly against this. However, I see a future where you will have to choose between mass surveillance or something close to extinction. I might be wrong, but as technology progress, it seems almost inevitable that a single individual can do more and more damage. An amount of damage it took half an army to achieve a couple of hundred years ago, one individual can do today with t…

An evil individual can easily defeat mass surveillance, because there is inherent asymmetry in encryption. She can encrypt her evil messages with, say, 6-words passphrase that no government would be able to crack no matter how many billions of dollars they throw at the task. Mass surveillance only works against innocents and low-wit criminals.

Yeah, maybe I wasn’t clear enough. I’m talking about surveillance on the level of sticking a camera down your toilet and putting you in jail for even thinking that you could send an encrypted message to somebody.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#325

Post by GaylordTuring »

csomar wrote: post #149
GaylordTuring wrote: post #83

In theory (and in practice today), I’m strongly against this. However, I see a future where you will have to choose between mass surveillance or something close to extinction. I might be wrong, but as technology progress, it seems almost inevitable that a single individual can do more and more damage. An amount of damage it took half an army to achieve a couple of hundred years ago, one individual can do today with t…

So you are saying this evil group can create and spread a super virus; but can't figure out how to secure their devices against these government mass surveillance techniques?

My thoughts wasn’t particularly related to this suggestion. As I said, I’m against it. I’m talking about more or less watching your every move maybe even to the point of not letting you communicate with other human beings at all. Alternatively, we can all be held in some kind of future zoo where we only have access to technology pre Turing machines.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#326

Post by mcv »

UnpossibleJim wrote: post #315
mcv wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about opposition to the death penalty and support for good health care? That would be a lot more pro-life, and are things Jesus actually addressed: heal the sick, and "let he who is without sin throw the first stone". I'm Christian, but I see no biblical argument against abortion. I'm not a fan of abortion, mind you; I think any abortion is a tragedy on some level, and unwanted pregnancies are better prevented th…

>>unwanted pregnancies are better prevented than aborted I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't agree with this statement. The narrative that abortion is used as a form of contraception is largely a false one, but accidents do happen. Most of the women who get abortions already have a child, surprisingly. [1] EDIT -> well, I was surprised, I guess I should say [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interac…

> I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't agree with this statement.

You'd think, and yet there are pro-lifers who oppose abortion and yet also want to make contraception less accessible.

Not everybody has a rational or even logically consistent position in this.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#327

Post by denton-scratch »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #220
denton-scratch wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> raise the penalties That never works. Raising the risks of being caught does work, but it costs money. > people with this mental disease Not all such people are ill; there are different reasons people get involved in child-porn. Some of them are just shitty people; some are traumatised; some are simply ignorant.

So throw the baby out with the bathwater? Point 1 does work as shown by cities giving up and letting petty criminals run wild (see san francisco). Point 2: so no help for anyone? I'm not sure what you're even saying here because it's just naysaying and not really offering any potential solutions.

I wasn't advocating no penalties; I was saying that increasing the penalties doesn't work (unless you are a politician trying to get re-elected).

And I wasn't saying 'no clinics'; I was griping about the term "mental illness". Not all bad behaviour is the result of a psychiatric disorder.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#328

Post by denton-scratch »

dane-pgp wrote: post #291
denton-scratch wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the only ones breaking the rules Of course not. Rules get broken all the time. But as the years went by, I came to realise that the EU didn't embody the principles it claimed to stand for (and of which I approved). > Leaving the EU doesn't help make Hungary (for example) become any less authoritarian Moderating the atavistic instincts of other countries isn't a good reason for being in a political union. > Boris Jo…

Thank you for your honest answers. For what it's worth, I don't think you're a bad person for voting the way you did. > the EU didn't embody the principles it claimed to stand for (and of which I approved). But is it possible that you were holding it to a higher standard than you hold your own country to? > Moderating the atavistic instincts of other countries isn't a good reason for being in a political union. Turni…

> The Council of Ministers only nominates the various members of the Commission

That's not right, in practice. Each member government appoints a commissioner. The Council of Ministers is nothing more than an ad-hoc meeting of relevant ministers from member governments, whose membership varies depending on what is being discussed. The parliament always approves all the proposed commissioners. The parliament can dismiss a commissioner, but only by dismissing the entire commission. This has only ever happened once, when it became obvious that most of them were crooks.

> fraud carried out by Greece itself, without the EU's knowledge

There was "fraud" by Greece; they weren't prepared to balance their budget. But actually everyone knew about it; it wasn't fraud in the sense of covert shenanigans. Government budgets tend to be public information. Germany, in particular, wanted Greece to accede.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#329

Post by emteycz »

d0mine wrote: post #323
emteycz wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no well-known millionaire founder behind Signal

I thought Signal has some three letter agency with a budget that has a dozen digits behind it.

But these are the good guys to these media. So they keep silent about it.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#330

Post by denton-scratch »

zx85wes wrote: post #321
dane-pgp wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your honest answers. For what it's worth, I don't think you're a bad person for voting the way you did. > the EU didn't embody the principles it claimed to stand for (and of which I approved). But is it possible that you were holding it to a higher standard than you hold your own country to? > Moderating the atavistic instincts of other countries isn't a good reason for being in a political union. Turni…

Not fair really to blame Greece. Everyone knew the euro was going to cause huge problems. Romano Prodi (president of the European Commission at the time) : 'I am sure the euro will oblige us to introduce a new set of economic policy instruments. It is politically impossible to propose that now. But some day there will be a crisis and new instruments will be created'. They wanted to use the problems they created to fo…

I'm not blaming Greece. They have been the victims in that story.
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