Why did this plane not have a copilot? Usually there are 2 people flying a plane?
Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
301–310 of 491 posts
Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also pilot here, agreed. I suspect there is a little more to the story. On the LiveATC audio, he was giving descent rates and asking tower/approach for headings. Didn't speak like a pilot but seemed to know more than a layperson. Maybe some aviation exposure but no flight time? Whatever the case, very well done by both him and ATC.
It seems reasonable that if someone is in a two person cessna they probably have some additional flight exposure, right? I wouldn't know anything about most of that stuff... but I could probably figure out some of it in the moment just because of my technical bent. A lot of my founder friends are pilots, and were able to adapt pretty quickly... so maybe it's one of those things?
> It seems reasonable that if someone is in a two person cessna they probably have some additional flight exposure, right?
I think that's true as you stated it, but this wasn't a little 150; it was a 208 (which seats up to 14). Very common to have non-aviation passengers in something like that. On the flip side, the fact that he was sitting front-right seat could be evidence he had some aviation background (e.g. as a pilot + aviation enthusiast, I would excitedly take that seat if it was an option).
Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've always said the reason we don't have flying cars yet is because people can't drive in 2D much less 3D. This gives me hope.
Isn’t 3D easier? There sure is a lot more room.
Except when something breaks, and you need an equivalent of parking by the side of the road.
Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had flight lessons, and after a few hours of training (most of which were unrelated to landing), I was able to land on a short runway, about 2000 feet long. Landing on a long runway (10001 feet / 3048 meters [1]) as was done here is much easier, as long as the plane doesn't malfunction and visibility is good. So I'm not that surprised that some people would be able to do this given good instructions over the radio…
Same, I'd hate to see a novice try to land on a narrow 2000' runway hemmed in by tall trees and a "snotty" 7+ kt crosswind component pushing the plane around. Lucky they were in Florida with working radios and gas in the tank to reach an accommodating runway. None of that should detract from the emergency pilot's excellent handling of the situation though—bravo! [edit] Apparently there was a significant crosswind: KP…
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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#305Garmin's got a relatively new system called Autoland that is designed for this exact situation. It allows a plane to land simply by pushing one button. It will pick the nearest appropriate airport, communicate with ATC, and land the plane entirely on its own. It's pretty amazing technology: https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/garmin-autoland-thi...
I've always said the reason we don't have flying cars yet is because people can't drive in 2D much less 3D. This gives me hope.
"Flying cars" made sense to me until I started flying. Now I think "driving airplanes" is the more appropriate phrase for what might be in the realm of possibility.
For example: here's how you'd prepare to visit distant relatives with each vehicle:
Car: load up however much weight you want, turn the keys and start driving. Low on gas? Just turn off at the next exit. Weather looks bad? Just drive slowly and carefully and you'll be fine.
Airplane: visually inspect your vehicle, be careful distributing limited weight around the cabin, get a weather briefing and accept that many days you just can't fly, break out your slide rule (literally!) and plot a course between waypoints, with calculations accounting for wind deflection, magnetic variation, fuel burn, and various other factors. And don't forget to plan out refueling stops and emergency airfields too. Then run through your checklist and (once you get permission from the tower, if any) take off.
I never appreciated how user-friendly modern cars are until flying. And air travelers are spoiled by all-weather jetliners piloted by the pros.
Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#306Why did this plane not have a copilot? Usually there are 2 people flying a plane?
This wasn't an airliner.
Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…
Genuine question, is my experience playing Microsoft flight simulator any use in being able to answer those questions, because it certainly feels like I can say something sensible about them.
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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…
Genuine question, is my experience playing Microsoft flight simulator any use in being able to answer those questions, because it certainly feels like I can say something sensible about them.
Years ago I read that a student pilot at Pensacola (basic flight training for the Navy and Marine Corps) qualified much faster because he played a lot of Microsoft Flight Simulator, to the point that the Navy was going to get multiple copies.
FOUND IT: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1999-05-03-99050300...
Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#309I grew up in Florida. It would take all my fingers and toes and more to count the number of times I have seen articles or even witnessed personally from the beach a pilot of a small craft either die naturally at the controls or have some medical event that causes a crash and death. Why are small planes necessary? Am I wrong to believe what it seems like, that the overwhelmingly popular purpose is entertainment ? Is a…
What do you think of all the people young drivers kill? Should people be prevented from driving they are a bit more responsible? Maybe around 30 years.
You're entirely ignoring the cost vs benefit view that the original comment brings up:
> Why are small planes necessary? Am I wrong to believe what it seems like, that the overwhelmingly popular purpose is entertainment?
There's much much more positive benefit to the society from allowing young people to drive. It allows them to exercise their independence, socialize, escape bad (home or other) environments, explore the society they're about to enter. I'm not one to say passion (for flying) or entertainment are not good reasons to do something, but they stand much weaker as benefits when compared to the benefits of allowing young drivers.
Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a multi-car pileup, the car immediately in front of you literally stops in an instant, much faster than if it were to fully hit the brakes. It's much faster than any driver could realistically expect. It can happen so fast, you may not even see brake lights turn on. It's why these pileups can get so surprisingly large.
Indeed. This is why you can't drive around just looking at the back of the car in front of you , you need to look way down the road. The distance to the car in front of you needs to be large enough that you can react if that driver steps on the brake, but will never be enough should they impact a stationary object. You need to see stuff like that much earlier, and if you can't, you're driving too fast. I'm constantly…
They're so rare that most drivers can't even imagine it happening to them. Combined with the fact that most drivers don't even understand what it is they should look for.