TodoMVC App Written in Vanilla JavaScript • Hacker News Board

Re: TodoMVC App Written in Vanilla JavaScript

#111

Post by wruza » Sun, May 08, 2022, 4:21 PM UTC

mmcnl wrote: post #109

wruza wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This relieves the developer of keeping track of DOM state, as you only declare the render function once A good part. and after that you only need to manage state A part where to change a[n].b.c: React: you either split into unhealthy number of “components”, which are never reused and require tons of pass-through, or only manage state as a sequence of unnatural to js “reduce” operations. Vue: give away your data to Vu…

You have to manage state within the rules of the framework, that's true. But the hard part of programming usually isn't syntax. Who cares if it's a different language/paradigm? It's a simple language and I only have to say a few words. It's still orders of magnitude less complex (this is not an exaggeration) than rolling your own framework with vanilla JS. I would encourage you to find out why React is popular and wh…

Are you familiar with both? Finding out why React is popular is a hard task because every article starts with comparing it to jQuery and usually ends there. I’d like to learn from the relevant side, not from the one centered around some obvious strawman. A link or just few words, I would really appreciate it.

Re: TodoMVC App Written in Vanilla JavaScript

#112

Post by mbrodersen » Mon, May 09, 2022, 1:29 AM UTC

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #18

Philip-J-Fry wrote: post #9

The thing I enjoy about frameworks like React is the declarative nature of the UIs. I'd love to not be able to use them and to create complex UIs in pure JavaScript but it always ends up being painful where you spend more time optimising the rendering than doing any work. In simple apps I will write UI in a functional matter in pure JavaScript, regardless of the performance implications. But bigger DOM means worse pe…

Echoes of Alan Kay's recent comment on how software devs are way too concerned with the how the computer works to the detriment of what the software is supposed to do.

Yep because software devs is in the business of making money, while Alan Kay is in the business of smugly commenting from the side lines. He has very little understanding on what matters in the commercial world of software.

Re: TodoMVC App Written in Vanilla JavaScript

#113

Post by kbelder » Mon, May 09, 2022, 7:27 PM UTC

ramesh31 wrote: post #79

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Echoes of Alan Kay's recent comment on how software devs are way too concerned with the how the computer works to the detriment of what the software is supposed to do.

Yup. The reality is that programmer time is far far more expensive than compute time. And as long as that's the case, increasing levels of abstraction are our only hope at building complex software.

Programmer time is more important than their computer time, sure. Not sure that programmer time is always more expensive than the compute time of all the users of the software added up.

Re: TodoMVC App Written in Vanilla JavaScript

#114

Post by syspec » Wed, May 11, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

gherkinnn wrote: post #74

syspec wrote: post #67

Wouldn't this have loads of memory leaks from never removing the event listeners when the todo elements go away? I think it hides the complexity by pretending that's not a problem

The event listeners get cleaned up by the GC. At least in modern browsers. While events aren’t explicitly mentioned, MDN offers an insightful read: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Memo... Alternately, one can use event delegation [0]. As does React under the hood [1]. 0 - https://javascript.info/event-delegation 1 - https://reactjs.org/blog/2020/08/10/react-v17-rc.html#change...

I think there's a reason why events are not mentioned in your linked document... The reference is maintained in memory because the browser has no idea if you will be using it again. After creating the listener, you may very well append it to another element later for all the browser knows.

Also the browser doesn't make a distinction to the type of event (such as `click` ), and say "Oh well you can't click on an element not in the DOM, I think I can clean this up"

So no it will not clean it up and it will leak memory, see for yourself

Re: TodoMVC App Written in Vanilla JavaScript

#115

Post by grabanski » Thu, May 12, 2022, 8:08 PM UTC

syspec wrote: post #114

gherkinnn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The event listeners get cleaned up by the GC. At least in modern browsers. While events aren’t explicitly mentioned, MDN offers an insightful read: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Memo... Alternately, one can use event delegation [0]. As does React under the hood [1]. 0 - https://javascript.info/event-delegation 1 - https://reactjs.org/blog/2020/08/10/react-v17-rc.html#change...

I think there's a reason why events are not mentioned in your linked document... The reference is maintained in memory because the browser has no idea if you will be using it again. After creating the listener, you may very well append it to another element later for all the browser knows. Also the browser doesn't make a distinction to the type of event (such as `click` ), and say "Oh well you can't click on an eleme…

Here's what I came up with for switching to event delegation: https://github.com/1Marc/todomvc-vanillajs-2022/blob/event-d...