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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#271

I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I was about to make a joke about it but I'm actually serious. Once I, a former Houstonian with no experience driving on ice, was driving through the snowy mountains and lost control of my car. Instead of panicking, my video-game-induced laser focus kicked in and I calmly piloted the car until the wheels gained traction and I could park the car on the side of the road. But l…

As someone who grew up in an area that gets a lot of winter driving conditions and has a bunch of car handling training (dry, rain, and winter specific): you didn't "calmly pilot" anything, friend. You hit ice, you're a passenger until you're no longer on ice. The car is mostly a 2D projectile unless you're on studded tires. You were lucky, that's it. And, I might add: you lost control of the car. There's a whole cha…

completely agree here. As someone who has done a fair amount of snow and ice driving in some quite unpleasant conditions never once have quick reflexes helped: low speed, correct use of controls (copious use of engine braking, starting in higher gear etc.) and the ability to make small measured corrections have seen me all right.

Even then I've come close to crashing three times (would have been a small crash though) twice due to slopes that weren't safe to descend given the conditions and once because a family of deer crossed the road in front of me, i was not able to correct course to avoid them or use the brakes - doing either would have led to me losing control - luckily i was doing < 15 mph and the deer stepped out of the way at the last second.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always said the reason we don't have flying cars yet is because people can't drive in 2D much less 3D. This gives me hope.

The real reason is that no one wants thousands of flying cars buzzing everywhere over a city.

The real reason is that we don't have one-person aircraft that can stop and hover with <300ft stopping distance and is under 10 ft wide. Helicopters come close but they're expensive and I'd hate to see parking for such a model of transportation.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

Genuine question, is my experience playing Microsoft flight simulator any use in being able to answer those questions, because it certainly feels like I can say something sensible about them.

Pilot here: It could help with some familiarity but generally in MSFS you can get away with ignoring the gauges and just mess around. The tutorial might gloss over some of it.

Having an unbelievable number of hours in MSFS when I was a kid ... landing a real plane is considerably harder and a ton of instruction time is just focused on getting you to land reliably. I finished my PPL in just over 40hrs which is close to the minimum. Most people will fall into the 60-100hr pool.

I'm dubious that this passenger really had zero experience it takes a good 6-10hrs to get decent at landing (as in not bending metal).

MSFS does however offer a reasonable feeling for the cruise portion of a flight.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#274
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the first obstacle for a layman to land a plane is to not panic and figure out how to work the radio (without pressing the wrong thing and accidentally shutting down the engines or something equally disastrous) so they can then follow the instructions calmly. I’d expect most people that would fail would fail at this stage - if they can get past that, their odds improve a lot.

It's less of a disaster than you'd think. Even if you shut off the engines the plane can glide for a long time. So if you don't panic you will have time to turn them back on.

You're right, but in this situation - a non-pilot is in a piston single with a pilot who becomes incapacitated - what are the odds they're not already panicking?

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also pilot here, agreed. I suspect there is a little more to the story. On the LiveATC audio, he was giving descent rates and asking tower/approach for headings. Didn't speak like a pilot but seemed to know more than a layperson. Maybe some aviation exposure but no flight time? Whatever the case, very well done by both him and ATC.

It seems reasonable that if someone is in a two person cessna they probably have some additional flight exposure, right? I wouldn't know anything about most of that stuff... but I could probably figure out some of it in the moment just because of my technical bent. A lot of my founder friends are pilots, and were able to adapt pretty quickly... so maybe it's one of those things?

We're all ignoring the possibility that the pilot gave him the, "Now if I become incapacitated," speech before taking off.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#276
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reckon I could do most of those things except transmit to ATC and squawk. I suspect I could google the rest or call someone to tell me how to. If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info?

> If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info? Many (most?) airlines have abandoned printed manuals and paperwork in cockpits and have switched to tablets - often iPads - for weight considerations and because they are easier to just keep updated, and those are usually non-accessible to random passengers. Notable exception are emergency checklists.

All planes are required to have the original POH onboard. However those don't really tell you how to fly the plane it's more focused on things like Vspeeds minimum flap extension speeds etc..

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real reason is that no one wants thousands of flying cars buzzing everywhere over a city.

The real reason is that we don't have one-person aircraft that can stop and hover with <300ft stopping distance and is under 10 ft wide. Helicopters come close but they're expensive and I'd hate to see parking for such a model of transportation.

Helicopters aren't really allowed to fly over most areas in cities though, except for police and other emergency helicopters. The noise and danger make it a no go, even if they were smaller.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#278

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

I have flown enough as a passenger with a single pilot to know some of those things. While I have held the wheel a bit, I have no formal training and no experience taking off or landing. If I were in the same situation, I would tell ATC, "I have no idea what I am doing" to err on the more useful end of expectations for assistance.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#279

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

I have 30 minutes and 2 touch-and-go’s in my log book. I suck at Microsoft Flight Simulator.

In 30 minutes of the instructor sitting next to me, I successfully landed and took off in a Cessna 172, learned to trim power, elevators and flaps, learned how to transmit and how to “squawk ident”, and what channel to use in emergencies (1202 IIRC).

Operating the airplane was very straightforward. Without the instructor or someone talking to me, I would not have known what to do when, but I can completely see how someone reasonably smart, calm, and able to follow directions could land such an airplane in good conditions.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#280
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you could fairly easily talk someone through landing The bad news is that it is 10/28 (east-west) and the wind was reported from the north at 11 knots gusting 17. KPBI 101553Z 02011G17KT 10SM SCT042 SCT046 26/15 A student pilot with 20 hours of training probably wouldn’t have been signed off by his/her/zir/their instructor to operate in that kind of crosswind. From: https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2022/05…

“signed off by his/her/zir/their instructor to operate” What does “zir” mean? I’ve seen it around but can’t remember where.

With woke pronouns, I feel like an 87 yo man around tiktok - don't care, not going to learn it, not enough time left on Earth to give a crap, happy to glide towards the grave without giving it a second thought. Y'all do you.
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