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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#241

Post by hgomersall »

whimsicalism wrote: post #172
civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

Genuine question, is my experience playing Microsoft flight simulator any use in being able to answer those questions, because it certainly feels like I can say something sensible about them.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#242

Post by [deleted] »

whimsicalism wrote: post #175

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

[deleted]

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#243

Post by spc476 »

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #34

Mythbusters once went to a commercial airline simulator to test the idea that a passenger with no training could land the plane. Without ATC help, it wasn't a great outcome. With ATC, they faired much better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ8K-hOcRHk

Years ago I had the opportunity to "fly" an A320 simulator (the type they use to train pilots) at Miami International Airport. Yes, with instructions, I was able to successfully land the airplane, and found it easier to do so than with Microsoft Flight Simulator. It was just setting a few controls, and on a small monitor in the middle of the dashboard, keep the plus sign in the square.

Without help? Not a chance ...

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#244

Post by kloch »

avemg wrote: post #79
NelsonMinar wrote: post #57

Video of the landing, it's very nicely done. https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1524410837414391809

I've made worse landings with a CFI sitting next to me in the cockpit when I was starting out. Landed a bit long but otherwise looked like a soft touchdown and a straight roll. Very impressive!

You see worse landings every year at Oshkosh.

A little hard and nose-first but at least he kept it on the ground and didn't bounce-bounce-crash.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#245

Post by Maursault »

topher515 wrote: post #224
Maursault wrote: post #162

I grew up in Florida. It would take all my fingers and toes and more to count the number of times I have seen articles or even witnessed personally from the beach a pilot of a small craft either die naturally at the controls or have some medical event that causes a crash and death. Why are small planes necessary? Am I wrong to believe what it seems like, that the overwhelmingly popular purpose is entertainment ? Is a…

It seems like you're conflating two issues here: 1. Old people like to fly small planes and crash them more than others [citation needed?] 2. Small planes emit toxic chemicals that are slowly poisoning everyone Personally I'm horrified that we allow issue (2.) to continue given all we know now about the dangers of lead poisoning. But I don't particularly care about issue (1.) since I generally think people should be…

> since I generally think people should be allowed to risk their own lives as they see fit.

But what if your life was in danger because of this. Because it is, even if the risk to you and your loved ones is low, it is not zero. If there was good reason for accepting this risk, that would be one thing. But there simply is no other rational reason than thrill for flying a small plane around for a few hours and landing in the same place. Someone's else's right to thrill does not eclipse my right not to be assaulted by harmful sounds, my right not to breathe harmful chemicals, and my right to not to be killed by a crashing plane.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#246

Post by randall »

freerobby wrote: post #219
civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Also pilot here, agreed. I suspect there is a little more to the story. On the LiveATC audio, he was giving descent rates and asking tower/approach for headings. Didn't speak like a pilot but seemed to know more than a layperson. Maybe some aviation exposure but no flight time? Whatever the case, very well done by both him and ATC.

It seems reasonable that if someone is in a two person cessna they probably have some additional flight exposure, right? I wouldn't know anything about most of that stuff... but I could probably figure out some of it in the moment just because of my technical bent. A lot of my founder friends are pilots, and were able to adapt pretty quickly... so maybe it's one of those things?

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#247

Post by loup-vaillant »

asdfman123 wrote: post #22

I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I was about to make a joke about it but I'm actually serious. Once I, a former Houstonian with no experience driving on ice, was driving through the snowy mountains and lost control of my car. Instead of panicking, my video-game-induced laser focus kicked in and I calmly piloted the car until the wheels gained traction and I could park the car on the side of the road. But l…

I wonder how this would generalise. Especially on VR.

I have a VR headset, and have played through Half-Life Alyx and a bit of zombie mode in Pavlov VR. My first headcrab in Half-life Alyx was horrible. I panicked, forgot which button to press to release the magazine, fumbled the insertion, forgot to load the gun after having inserted the magazine… but by the end of the game, those head crab didn’t trigger any fear, only a reflex of pulling out the gun, pointing, shooting, and reloading quickly became a reflex. Oh, and I became much better at quick aiming. I’m no speed shooter, but I do land a couple shots per second.

Then I tried Pavlov VR. First the shooting range to get used to the slightly different mechanics. And then the zombie mode. This time the zombies were fast. And what do you know, I panicked again. Though I didn’t fumble with the reload this time (I had no spare magazine), and my aiming was okay, I massively overshot.

That’s when I thought that people who unload their entire charger really aren’t necessarily vengeance driven bloodthirsty warmongers. They may just lack training. Anyway, I trained a couple times more with the zombies, and it got better.

Here’s the thing though: I now have trained VR games to shoot at moving humanoid targets, some of which shoot back, some of which just try to close in to melee range. So now I wonder: if all goes to shit and I’m handed a loaded gun, and suddenly 3 angry people with knives close in on me with visible killing intent, what are the chances that my VR training may cause me to shoot them in the heart by reflex, instead of panicking, running, or negotiating?

How far pure video game training can go?

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#248

Post by verelo »

littlestymaar wrote: post #239
egwor wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reckon I could do most of those things except transmit to ATC and squawk. I suspect I could google the rest or call someone to tell me how to. If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info?

> If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info? I can't imaging myself getting anything from an unknown manual full of jargon in such a stressful environment!

Not sure if you've ever seen the POH for a C172, but it is thick. Example: https://www.montereynavyflyingclub.org/Other%20Docs/Cessna-1...

Personally, ATC is your best bet here. I'd say a lot of people who have ever flown a flight simulator can get the plan low and slow enough to not cause death upon impact. I would anticipate a bumpy landing, some injury and a lost plane...so this outcome is pretty impressive imo.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#249

Post by DocTomoe »

egwor wrote: post #193
whimsicalism wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

I reckon I could do most of those things except transmit to ATC and squawk. I suspect I could google the rest or call someone to tell me how to. If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info?

> If there's a manual up there, then maybe that will have info?

Many (most?) airlines have abandoned printed manuals and paperwork in cockpits and have switched to tablets - often iPads - for weight considerations and because they are easier to just keep updated, and those are usually non-accessible to random passengers. Notable exception are emergency checklists.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#250

Post by throwawayboise »

phkahler wrote: post #208
asdfman123 wrote: post #22

I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I was about to make a joke about it but I'm actually serious. Once I, a former Houstonian with no experience driving on ice, was driving through the snowy mountains and lost control of my car. Instead of panicking, my video-game-induced laser focus kicked in and I calmly piloted the car until the wheels gained traction and I could park the car on the side of the road. But l…

>> I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I feel kinda stupid. I played a lot of video games growing up, including a binge on MS Flightsim 4 (I think). When I took flying lessons as an adult, the hardest thing for me was mastering landing. Something about it just wouldn't click for many hours. OTOH I never really mastered landing in the sim either - I didn't really care about that back then and didn't have any i…

> the hardest thing for me was mastering landing. Something about it just wouldn't click for many hours ... some kids fly for the first time quite naturally

There's probably a big component of natural ability here. Some people are just better at certain things. If you're not one of them, you may be able to train yourself to a competent level of performance, but you'll never be as good as a "natural." It's somthing that takes a bit of self-awareness and humility to admit, and some people never do.

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