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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#211

Post by shkkmo »

sandworm101 wrote: post #85
tadfisher wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, he crashed every plane he flew.

He also wasn't landing at an airport with help from ATC. If you put an aircraft down on an unprepared beach/field, and walk away, that was a good landing irrespective of any damage done. For many pilots, a "crash" must be unintentional. Deliberately putting an aircraft down somewhere other than a runway is "ditching" or a forced landing, but never a crash.

> If you put an aircraft down on an unprepared beach/field, and walk away, that was a good landing irrespective of any damage done.

For his skill level, walking away is a great result. However, there are Alaskan bush pilots who land some pretty remarkable places. Some of them are not official runways and many of the ones that are official (Alaska has a LOT) won't have ATC support. OFC, Alaskan bush pilots aren't representative of pilots overall, but they still show we should be careful about overgeneralizing.

When my father and his friend tipped their plane forward and bent their prop landing on a gravel bar moose hunting, it wasn't a "good" landing, but neither was it "ditching" or a "forced landing" (they were able to unload the plane and trim the prop enough to fly the plane out so it wasn't that bad of a landing either). From past discussion on here, it is a little complicated if it was legally considered a "crash".

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#212

Post by Maursault »

throwawayboise wrote: post #209
Maursault wrote: post #162

I grew up in Florida. It would take all my fingers and toes and more to count the number of times I have seen articles or even witnessed personally from the beach a pilot of a small craft either die naturally at the controls or have some medical event that causes a crash and death. Why are small planes necessary? Am I wrong to believe what it seems like, that the overwhelmingly popular purpose is entertainment ? Is a…

This was a turboprop, so no lead at least.

Nice catch.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#214

Post by squeaky-clean »

jzawodn wrote: post #6
orbital-decay wrote: post #4

>air traffic controllers were able to locate the plane on radar and walk the passenger through how to land the small plane Are ATCOs actually trained for this kind of situation?

Not really. The controller who helped was a flight instructor. If there's one around (sometimes there is), they're usually the best option.

I've listened to a few recordings of similar situations online and if there's no flight instructor there, and the plane has enough fuel to keep circling for a while, they often call one up to come to the airport and help while keeping the amateur in a safe pattern until they arrive.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#215

Post by ledauphin »

Maursault wrote: post #207
ledauphin wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we do - they're called Aviation Medical Examiners. The pilot operating this flight would have had, at minimum, a 2nd class medical, which has to be renewed every 12 months.

> which has to be renewed every 12 months. That is simply insufficient. Introduce age to the standard and increase frequency of examinations with increasing age. And let's strongly discourage pilots over a certain age where reaction time, eye-sight and cognition is known to become more deficient. Yes, definitely let's discourage and restrict old people from operating dangerous machinery, no matter how rich and entitl…

age is in fact part of the standard...

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#216

Post by causi »

Maursault wrote: post #162

I grew up in Florida. It would take all my fingers and toes and more to count the number of times I have seen articles or even witnessed personally from the beach a pilot of a small craft either die naturally at the controls or have some medical event that causes a crash and death. Why are small planes necessary? Am I wrong to believe what it seems like, that the overwhelmingly popular purpose is entertainment ? Is a…

I was all ready to criticize you for blowing things out of proportion but then I checked the numbers. Damn, small aircraft create 50% of airborne lead contamination.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#217

Post by xhroot »

asdfman123 wrote: post #22

I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I was about to make a joke about it but I'm actually serious. Once I, a former Houstonian with no experience driving on ice, was driving through the snowy mountains and lost control of my car. Instead of panicking, my video-game-induced laser focus kicked in and I calmly piloted the car until the wheels gained traction and I could park the car on the side of the road. But l…

There was a guy who made a forum bet he could land a Cessna 172 - first try - with nothing but MS Flight Simulator experience.

Here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34/other-other-topics/pro...

And outcome:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=35915547&p...

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#218

Post by loup-vaillant »

civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Pilot student here. I’m not floored at all, for two reasons: my own experience, and selection bias.

I once maintained level on a Cessna equivalent with zero training besides video games (I loved flight simulators back in the late 90s), and a tiny bit of model flying (I flew little and crashed a lot). Maintaining altitude wasn’t trivial, but maintaining level was dead easy. I’m sure I could have managed a very slight bank turn safely. Now landing… some years later I got 5 hours of gliding. My first landing went well enough that the instructor didn’t have to take control. If my instructor got sick instead, I would give my former self 30% chance of avoiding injury or death. 75% if a trained instructor with a similar glider could tail me and observe me more closely (and I think there were). Never ever gonna risk such folly of course, but I wouldn’t have been doomed either.

Then there’s selection bias: we hear of this because it is a feat. No question about that. Now let’s not forget about all the people that tried this and died. For those we’ll only hear of the pilot getting sick and the plane crashing. Or just the plane crashing. Those make for less impressive headlines.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#219

Post by freerobby »

civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Also pilot here, agreed.

I suspect there is a little more to the story. On the LiveATC audio, he was giving descent rates and asking tower/approach for headings. Didn't speak like a pilot but seemed to know more than a layperson. Maybe some aviation exposure but no flight time? Whatever the case, very well done by both him and ATC.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#220

Post by AtNightWeCode »

asdfman123 wrote: post #22

I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I was about to make a joke about it but I'm actually serious. Once I, a former Houstonian with no experience driving on ice, was driving through the snowy mountains and lost control of my car. Instead of panicking, my video-game-induced laser focus kicked in and I calmly piloted the car until the wheels gained traction and I could park the car on the side of the road. But l…

This was probably easier than to refuel and successfully land in Top Gun on NES.
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