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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#101

Post by Merad »

vmception wrote: post #7

bravo! any idea how hard or easy this is? did the passenger land on an airstrip or where? all details lacking

Flying a small plane like this really isn't all that hard as long as a) the weather is good, b) the plane itself is working normally, and c) you have a basic understanding of how the controls work. When people are learning to fly for their private pilot's license it's not terribly unusual for people to solo (be competent enough to fly alone) after 5-10 hours of instruction. Granted many people do take longer, but it's often because their instruction is very spread out. At typically > $150 per hour many people can only afford a few hours of lessons per month.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#102

Post by jonny_eh »

mhb wrote: post #86
bluedays wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty video games saved my life while driving, too. Once I was driving down the highway at 70 miles per hour and the car in front of me stopped on a dime. I always maintain a good distance from the car in front of me but I knew for sure if I would have just hit the breaks I would have hit him. I wound up swerving into the next lane with a reaction time of under a second only to drive by a six car pile up which i…

I'm not so sure you know what a good distance is from the car in front of you.

In a multi-car pileup, the car immediately in front of you literally stops in an instant, much faster than if it were to fully hit the brakes. It's much faster than any driver could realistically expect. It can happen so fast, you may not even see brake lights turn on. It's why these pileups can get so surprisingly large.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#104

Post by schmookeeg »

moduspol wrote: post #90
schmookeeg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think even the colossally tone-deaf FAA wouldn't try to prosecute this guy under these circumstances, there's an odd gray area here, where a certificated pilot can deviate from any regulation to meet the need of an emergency [1] -- so I think a twist of logic would allow a non-pilot to be allowed to deviate from the "must have a pilot certificate" rules to meet his emergency the same way while acting as pilot…

One might argue that if he's specifically following the direct instructions of the ATC, who is a licensed pilot in this case, that the ATC is "the pilot," and his allowing of a non-pilot to push the buttons on his behalf was a necessary deviation to handle the emergency and land the plane.

That's an interesting twist -- I really hope nobody at the FAA gets such a wild hair to try to pin a certificate action on the ATC controller (here or ever, in any situation), but --

There is a SODA precedent for what you describe. As I understand it, a deaf pilot can get an instrument rating if they have a translator onboard to run comms for them and translate to ASL in-cockpit. So this is sort of the same situation you're contemplating, with a different chair position -- "translator" in the ATC room instead of the right seat.

I do feel the regulations allow all sorts of circuitous logic, that any "outcome" could be achieved with enough incentive. ATC is the last place on earth where I feel cooperation is the inviolate rule of the day, so I'd hate for some maverick prosecutor to throw ice water on the pilot-controller relationship in a witch-hunt for blame.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#105

Post by dlisboa »

Nextgrid wrote: post #65
pc86 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nitpicking because I agree with you, but in an emergency situation like this if you can walk away from the airplane, the condition of it is irrelevant. So I think at least 85-90% of the time (in good weather with a crosswind component below 7-8kts or so) everyone would be okay. And absolutely agreed on the large aircraft part. I'm a private pilot, but no instrument cert yet, with only piston single experience - n…

I think the first obstacle for a layman to land a plane is to not panic and figure out how to work the radio (without pressing the wrong thing and accidentally shutting down the engines or something equally disastrous) so they can then follow the instructions calmly. I’d expect most people that would fail would fail at this stage - if they can get past that, their odds improve a lot.

That's exactly right. This pilot on YouTube did this test with a layperson and the main issue was getting comms up. It took like 20 minutes if I remember correctly, but after that the landing itself went alright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw6mjVIdbbc

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#107

Post by BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 »

Looking at the ATC transcript, the passenger couldn't figure out the transponder, change frequencies or give out his cell phone number. At least he was able to get the microphone working.

Likely he eventually picked up the phone number ATC gave him and they took it from there.

The video shows ATC got him to a really long runway, a good portion of which he overflew. No flare on the landing, but the Caravan is a tough bird, the descent rate was gentle and the attitude was just right.

An excellent landing is where you can use the airplane again (without repairs).

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#108

Post by textide »

Nextgrid wrote: post #37
asdfman123 wrote: post #22

I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I was about to make a joke about it but I'm actually serious. Once I, a former Houstonian with no experience driving on ice, was driving through the snowy mountains and lost control of my car. Instead of panicking, my video-game-induced laser focus kicked in and I calmly piloted the car until the wheels gained traction and I could park the car on the side of the road. But l…

Video game experience is absolutely better than no experience. On small general aviation planes, the feature set is quite minimal and most simulators will replicate all of it faithfully enough, so the only remaining thing is the “feel” of the plane which you can hopefully experience a bit during flight before landing. In contrast, a big passenger jet has insane amounts of different systems that need to be configured…

PMDG just released their 737-700 plane for the new Microsoft Flight Simulator. It has incredible fidelity, including a nearly fully functional FMC. Some real world 737 pilots have released reviews on YouTube in the last couple of days.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#109

Post by wl »

Nextgrid wrote: post #72
wl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercial airliners have autoland systems. Much less common in smaller planes.

Configuring these is very difficult (for a non-pilot) and it might rely on airport-side equipment that not all airports have.

Configuring an autopilot is not that difficult when someone is telling you exactly what to do. It's also more likely to have a good result vs. relying on underdeveloped stick and rudder skills.

In a situation where a non-pilot is pressed into flying an airliner because of pilot incapacitation, tiny municipal airstrips without ILS aren't really an option, anyway.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#110

Post by imwillofficial »

mhb wrote: post #93
mattmaroon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk, I’ve only flown 172s and have only landed a handful of times myself, but I think you could fairly easily talk someone through landing with an at least decent chance of survival if the weather was good. I mean this is not an experiment you want to run, of course. But landing in good conditions is pretty intuitive. You can tell if your angle to the runway is good or bad pretty easily and just adjust the throttle.…

> I think you could fairly easily talk someone through landing The bad news is that it is 10/28 (east-west) and the wind was reported from the north at 11 knots gusting 17. KPBI 101553Z 02011G17KT 10SM SCT042 SCT046 26/15 A student pilot with 20 hours of training probably wouldn’t have been signed off by his/her/zir/their instructor to operate in that kind of crosswind. From: https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2022/05…

“signed off by his/her/zir/their instructor to operate” What does “zir” mean? I’ve seen it around but can’t remember where.
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