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Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

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Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#221
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His entire platform was "say shit to piss people off." It's what got him elected, and what allowed him to pack SCOTUS. So now we're down to to "we should restrict the speech of people I don't agree with, which might get them elected." Say...how did I end up on this hill, and why is it so slippery?

Look if you think being a serial liar with unimaginable power to a common person and never having to be accountable for free speech (“I can’t show you my taxes” - that’s a good one) then society is broken. The megaphone of lies convinces stupid people who have the right to vote. It’s clear they don’t have the intellect to vote responsibly, and that can be attributed to Facebook and Twitter letting any miscreant or mo…

Your assumption that everyone is so stupid that they automatically believe everything is actually quite racist and authoritarian.

You assume people can't think for themselves in any capacity so you need to protect them. That's an authoritarian mindset that needs to be removed from this country entirely.

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem I have with some free speech purists is that they give me a feeling that they are persons who are more often than not unaffected by speech" There's a mirror image problem though: people in favor of regulations on speech have little reason to fear that their speech will be limited, at least in the short term. Regulators are politically-correct, so if you are politically-correct, what's the problem? (Obvio…

Short-term isn't really that short. Witness all the tales of teachers not being able to admit to being gay in the 90s without risking getting fired, or don't ask, don't tell, which was only repealed roughly a decade ago. These speech restrictions were all being pushed by the American GOP, which is now reversing course less than a few years later as they find the cultural tides shifting away from moral majority, satan…

> don't ask, don't tell, which was only repealed roughly a decade ago. These speech restrictions were all being pushed by the American GOP

Wasn't DADT instituted by the Clinton administration?

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#223
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lori Lightfoot is neither on the left (she is squarely a centrist), nor the President of the United States claiming that the election was stolen.

You’re splitting hairs. She’s making a “call to arms”, as mayor of one of the largest cities in the US, over an unsubstantiated claim that the Supreme Court is going to overturn the right to gay marriage, which they are not doing and have not indicated they will do. Seems pretty analogous to me.

Multiple states have passed laws targeting LGBTQ+ and it's not unreasonable to rally around how this will all play out in the courts and legislatures.

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#224
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see the political climate shifting hard right. Supreme court repealing Roe v. Wade, Don't say gay bill, restrictions of voter rights, denial of 2020 election loss among top leaders in the GOP, the list goes on... Not to even to mention the likelihood of conservatives gaining control of the senate and perhaps house in the midterms. This is what a hard right political climate shift looks like. So, the unbanni…

Conservatism isn't a hard-right ideology.

I agree with that. But what is happening now isn't the traditional conservatism of 'low taxes, small government'. Look what happened to Liz Chenney, a traditional conservative if anybody can be called one, when she dared to claim Biden won the election.

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#225
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's been proven guilty. He did it on live tv. The fact that he still has enough political power to avoid execution for sedition, or any responsibility whatsoever for this crime, does not have any effect on the truth value of my statement.

Man it's a scary state of affairs when people unflinchingly support execution of a President that literally didn't incite a riot. And that they think it was a genuine attempt at a coup. All I'm saying is, I think it's pretty obvious which side has most of the guns in this day in age. I don't recall seeing many armed that day. Actually I don't recall hearing about any . Except for, of course, all the obvious undercove…

Ignorance is not an excuse.

1. Trump attempted to use fake electors to overturn the election in his favor. [1]

2. The wife of a Supreme Court Justice pursued efforts to overturn the election. [2]

3. There were tons of communications between senior members and the Trump admin on how to overturn the election. [3]

4. The Oath Keepers, an armed militia group, stood by on Jan 6 ready to "swoop in" on a signal. [4]

5. And of course, the President of the United States of America told his followers that "if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore". And "We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved." And "Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about … We will stop the steal." And "Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness, you have to show strength and you have to be strong.”" And then told them he would march to the Capitol with them. [5]

[1] https://www.npr.org/2022/02/10/1079835695/how-trump-sought-t...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/24/virginia-...

[3] https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/politics/mark-meadows-texts-2...

[4] https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-trump-capitol-arrests/oa...

[5] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-fi...

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#226

Is there just a different set of free speech rules for the rich and powerful? If I incited violence on the platform, I doubt Elon or Dorsey would be letting me come back after a ban.

When did trump incite violence? That sounds like a crime. Why wasn't he charged? Maybe you're confused? Anyhoo, what's that got to do with twitter? Since when did they become the police?

The crime was inciting an insurrection. The president was not charged due to partisan politics, no president has ever actually been voted out by the Senate of their own party (correct me if I'm wrong), but historically this has been the most votes received from their party. It's recommended to understand both the background and the event on January 6th to get a clear picture, including attempts to overturn the election. More details here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_impeachment_of_Donald...

Twitter is responsible for moderating the users their platform, regardless of whether they are free speech purists. You cannot let your users plot crimes. That's why sites like Silk Road and AlphaBay were shut down.

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short-term isn't really that short. Witness all the tales of teachers not being able to admit to being gay in the 90s without risking getting fired, or don't ask, don't tell, which was only repealed roughly a decade ago. These speech restrictions were all being pushed by the American GOP, which is now reversing course less than a few years later as they find the cultural tides shifting away from moral majority, satan…

> don't ask, don't tell, which was only repealed roughly a decade ago. These speech restrictions were all being pushed by the American GOP Wasn't DADT instituted by the Clinton administration?

And Music censoring was Tipper Gore (Al Gore's wife).

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#228
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His entire platform was "say shit to piss people off." It's what got him elected, and what allowed him to pack SCOTUS. So now we're down to to "we should restrict the speech of people I don't agree with, which might get them elected." Say...how did I end up on this hill, and why is it so slippery?

Look if you think being a serial liar with unimaginable power to a common person and never having to be accountable for free speech (“I can’t show you my taxes” - that’s a good one) then society is broken. The megaphone of lies convinces stupid people who have the right to vote. It’s clear they don’t have the intellect to vote responsibly, and that can be attributed to Facebook and Twitter letting any miscreant or mo…

> Look if you think being a serial liar with unimaginable power to a common person and never having to be accountable for free speech (“I can’t show you my taxes” - that’s a good one) then society is broken.

...'twas ever thus.

But seriously: nothing in my comment was specific to any particular politician. I am a free speech absolutist because I don't trust you to judge what I'm allowed to hear. For all values of "you".

The correct reaction to "omg, this person whom I hate just won the election!" is not to censor the person in some desperate, misguided attempt to prevent people from liking him. It's to offer a better alternative in the marketplace of ideas. Asserting that you can't do this because "society is broken", or similar excuses, is just a cop-out.

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians don't have the right to be on a private website. They already have official channels to communicate. Twitter has every right to ban Putin, or Trump, or Duterte, etc.

Where did I say that politicians have the right to stay on a private website? Yes, Twitter has the right to ban people. As do restaurants not serve certain people. But if a restaurant decides to not serve Jews let's say, I will obviously condemn them. If you believe in free speech you should have absolutely condemned Twitter when they banned the president.

[deleted]

Re: Jack Dorsey says he agrees with reversing Trump's Twitter ban

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those communications is aimed at people that regularly riot. Context counts for a lot.

Which group is that? Can you name them? Who is their leader? Trump told the Proud Boys specifically to "stand back and stand by". They are an armed group. You are equating the Proud Boys with the amorphous "LGBTQ+ friends" community, and then saying that the latter "regularly riot". That's not tenable. I think you are deliberately engaging in bad-faith arguments. You are literally saying "gay people are the same as o…

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