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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#291

Post by elcomet »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #261
tomc1985 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

> The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. That's unfortunately not how markets work. If you create 10M of value every year, and are only paid 250K for doing it, it's because there is someone else out there who is willing to do it for the same. (Yes, there are asymmetries in information and power, but broadly, tech salaries are market-driven)

But then some competitor should come and sell the same thing for much less money, which means that you do not really create 10M value.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#292

Post by mgkimsal »

indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

> The cost savings of work from home must have been enormous for these companies, yet none of that savings or record profits trickled down to the people writing code

Lots of companies had long term leases or obligations anyway. Eventually the 'cost savings' were probably there, but I don't know too many companies that were just able to jettison their initial lease payments in the first few months of the pandemic. I know I couldn't quickly get out of my office lease.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#294

Post by bosie »

tomc1985 wrote: post #272
chasd00 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well we all like to think we're the sole reason "the company" makes any money but there's a lot more to the equation than just the person typing out the code. Without the code there would be no value but the code is meaningless without all the other expertise required to turn it into bank deposits. The technical part is maybe 10% (if not lower) of the overall effort to get a paycheck in your hands.

Nowhere does my post indicate that I think I'm the "sole reason" the company makes any money. We are all just cogs in the machine. But, as with anyone who makes the product, we are a huge part of the reason the company is in business and it would be nice if management would stop looking down at us. Maybe they should be looking up to us instead. (And if you disagree, read into the tone of the article.... "techies"???…

> But they don't make the product

Not sure how important that is, though. Often the product gets sold despite of the product, thanks to marketing, operations, logistics, sales, support, legal and management (product/project).

Genuinely curious but do you consider product/project management to also 'be making the product'?

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#295

Post by durandal1 »

lawrenceyan wrote: post #77

The average cost of a home in the Bay Area is also somewhere between ~1.5 million dollars as well. So it’s effectively impossible to reasonably buy a home unless you have a salary >300k without going into massive debt.

Worse than that, property taxes and higher interest rates makes that 1.5M home at least 3x more expensive compared to the equivalent European house.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#296

Post by formerkrogemp »

tomc1985 wrote: post #269
formerkrogemp wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. This is true of every industry going on decades of increasing productivity and stagnating pay. What's new here besides greater awareness and labor churn? Will there be an actual change going forward? Of course the demographics favor workers now, but the laws and politics often don't. Immigration and outsourcing…

> What're you going to do? Form a union? Start a company? Vote? Quit and work elsewhere? Quit and work for myself. Personally I'm sick of the capped upside with working in tech (among myriad other issues) and the kinda shit you have to pull to raise it.

Good on you. I hope you do well.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#297

Post by dasil003 »

jason0597 wrote: post #178
uejfiweun wrote: post #23

Working in tech is not exactly easy, even if you love computers. You have to move to some awfully expensive part of the country and interact with some extremely thin skinned people all day, and spend hours upon hours examining minute details of systems supporting systems supporting systems that you never even knew existed.

> You have to move to some awfully expensive part of the country and interact with some extremely thin skinned people all day, and spend hours upon hours examining minute details of systems supporting systems supporting systems that you never even knew existed. Sounds a lot like engineering to be honest. Lots of travelling to facilities in the middle of nowhere, people that never click together, examining systems wit…

Isn't it obvious? Software scales globally with effectively zero margin, so if you combine this with network effects and blue ocean, unregulated markets in user data, that meant a massive high new ceiling for software engineers set by Google and Facebook.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#298

Post by dimitrios1 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #249
dimitrios1 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only Americans reignited their imagination and didn't just settle on having a few big cities in opposite corners of the country. America is huge. There's land everywhere. Start dreaming. China has 160 cities with 1+ million people. We have 10. Granted, there is a massive population difference, but we should most definitely have more than 10. There are major issues when you only have a few cities with the bulk of t…

The US has 50-60 cities with 1+ million people. You may be conflating administrative boundaries with cities.

You may be conflating metro areas with cities. If you are, it's not a helpful distinction in either case, and not the point I am trying to illustrate.

For example, I could live in Wise County in Texas, and be technically counted towards the population of the Dallas/FW/Arlington Metro, but I would never dream of driving into Dallas from there daily for services, schooling, or work, and if I did, I would be severely disadvantaged, especially if I was poor or lacked resources.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#299

Post by rainboOow9 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #285
rainboOow9 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What baffles me though is that its not like this crazy interview gauntlet is being maintained purely by HR. Engineers in those big tech companies are very protective towards those processes as well, and loudly protest if one would try to change them (complaining about lowering the bar, not hiring top tier talent anymore, etc.). And tbh, I would be afraid of what they would replace those LC interviews with. At least,…

> Engineers in those big tech companies are very protective towards those processes as well, and loudly protest if one would try to change them (complaining about lowering the bar, not hiring top tier talent anymore, etc.). Hazing is a feature of almost every organization that is regularly recruiting new members.

Is it though? Seems pretty specific to the tech industry (and some others).

Never heard that there were crazy interview rounds for experienced lawyers, marketers, project managers, even other non-tech engineers. After a certain amount of experience, people assume from your resume that you are not an impostor and interviews are mostly about motivations / behavourial fit.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#300

Post by silisili »

dalyons wrote: post #277
silisili wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way in hell it's close to 8x. Just crunched the numbers, and an 8x mortgage would exceed my monthly take home. I felt pretty uncomfortable at 2.5x. I feel a lot of people are probably extending out to 4 or even 5, but 8 would be irresponsible and I doubt you could even find a lender for that.

I should have provided these in my first comment: Median-income-to-house price by state : https://constructioncoverage.com/research/cities-with-highes... As you can see California is at a whopping 8.9x US overall: https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-median-annual-inco... Pushing 7x.

Damn, I completely misunderstood what you were saying, sorry!

For some reason I was reading the comment that the average homebuyer is paying 8x their salary for a house. What you've been comparing are median incomes to sales prices. A useful indicator, but not capturing what people are actually paying - it is entirely possible the 'medians' are priced out, especially with such constrained supply.

That makes me feel way less crazy now... apologies again.

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