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Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

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Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#41
post #9

Have you read O'Reilly's Learning Emacs ? I strongly recommend it. It's a useful tour guide. Failing that, have you read the tutorial? Have you read Steve Yegge's "Effective Emacs"? If none of that can help or inspire you then I probably don't have much chance. But I'll offer you some coaching anyway. Imagine Vince Lombardi reading this to you: Stop using the mouse. If you're using emacs and you're touching the mouse…

I just read Steve Yegge's "Effective Emacs", thanks for the link. It was very enlightening on many levels and told me several things that were written between the lines, namely: - Initial user experience is (very) secondary to long-term efficiency - if you aren't in this for the long term don't bother - the article actually suggestes swapping the caps lock key and the ctrl key to have it better positioned for emacs u…

> the article actually suggestes swapping the caps lock key and the ctrl key to have it better positioned for emacs use...

I'd argue that this is ergonmically essential for long-term emacs use, otherwise you run the risk of 'emacs claw'.

Took me less than a week to get used to it. If you regularly use other people's machines then it's not a good idea (but then, neither is emacs unless you are carrying around your .emacs file, since you'll miss all your personal keybindings).

Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#43
I think you are looking for an editor which feels modern but has the power of emacs,vim or textmate. If you are on Windows, you can try http://www.e-texteditor.com/. If on OSX, http://macromates.com/ Even i used to go round this question. I tried emacs, then vim , then textmate, then e-texteditor. Finally i felt Vim to be comfortable for me. You need to try all of those before settling on one.

Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#45
I don't think emacs has a steep learning curve for being a really efficient editor, the way (say) vi does. If you can get through the day in emacs without touching the mouse, you're basically there, and the rest is just discovering all the features and ways to customize it.

Force yourself to move the insertion point with the arrow keys, for starters. Then learn a few shortcuts so you don't go insane. C-a for beginning of line, C-e for end. M-f and M-b for forward/backwards by a whole word. C-v and M-v will scroll you up and down through the document and move the insertion point so that it stays on the screen.

Emacs doesn't need a lot of UI. It isn't an IDE, for one thing (though it can be used as one). Customization is done by putting incantations in your .emacs file. Managing buffers and panes only requires a handful of commands; learn the keys for them, or re-assign them if they're awkward.

Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#46
post #37
post #24

YOU know what would be really useful? To have an expert Emacs user do a screencast of himself doing standard programming stuff. I think that would make it really obvious how these types of editors are.

Well, you'd need to have some way to do quick keyboard tracking with the screencast. Just seeing all of the text get highlighted and re-indented wouldn't do a lot. I'm not sure how much more it would help if you could see that "[ctrl-x], [ctrl-h], [esc], x, indent-region" was typed...

There's actually an extension by Michael Weber that might be helpfull for recording screecasts:

http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/

Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#47
If you prefer to use the mouse, rather than keyboard shortcuts, you might be happier with something like Acme/Wily (http://www.cse.yorku.ca/~oz/wily/). It's not available for all platforms, though.

Emacs is intrinsically a keyboard-driven editor, and mostly just tries to keep the GUI out of the way. Your experience is more meaningful than anybody's dogma about whether keyboard-centric or mouse-centric development is more productive for you, but mostly using the mouse will make it hard to take advantage of what makes Emacs special.

(If you, or other readers, want to really learn Emacs, you should probably give it at least a month. Once you're comfortable with the basics, gradually learning elisp will greatly increase how useful it is for you.)

Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#48

I spent a couple hours every day doing the basics (first learning buffers, then file stuff, then on and on...) within a week I had decided to switch from VIM. (I used only emacs while on vacation for any editing I needed to do) My suggestion - stop reading all the tutorials and just do it. Keep a list next to your computer with 5 things you need to know how to do - with the key strokes next to them. Once you become c…

Also, first things first, Control-H followed by t brings up a tutorial. Work through that, it covers all the basics.

Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#49
post #5

> A nice looking GUI and You're editing text. What "graphical"s are you expecting? (You should be seeing syntax and selection highlighting.) > well designed intuitive interfaces matter to me. What's the difference between "intuitive" and "familiar"? Yes, the keyboard commands are not what you're used to. If you want the keyboard commands that you're used to, you can program them. That's generally a bad idea, but emac…

If you want the keyboard commands that you're used to, you can program them. That's generally a bad idea... Let me underline this sentence. Some people (particularly the ones who think that copy and paste were invented by God on the eighth day of creation) get it into their heads that they should redesign the emacs interface on their first day. This is particularly tempting because the ability to remap keys all over…

A couple reasons to not try to immediately make the keyboard shortcuts match the editor you're used to:

* You'll probably overwrite some other really useful keyboard shortcuts unintentionally. C-v (Paste, on Windows) is page-down in Emacs. C-c is the prefix for mode-specific commands; C-c C-c sends email, compiles the function under the cursor, etc., depending on what file / buffer type you're working in.

* Emacs has its own ways to do some of those operations. Copying and pasting under Emacs is fundamentally different because of the "kill ring". Instead of having a clipboard, it has a stack (which loops once you hit the end, hence, "ring").

Re: Ask YC: Why is emacs a great editor?

#50
post #17
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A swift kick to the head. After that, mapping CAPS-LOCK to be CONTROL. After that, the previously mentioned O'Reilly book.

This is the second time I've read this: > mapping CAPS-LOCK to be CONTROL. Why? At least in my laptop CAPS-LOCK is easier me to press than CONTROL if I want CAPS, maybe there is another reason for it?

That puts control on the home row. You'll be pressing / holding down control quite often in Emacs. (Frequently typed characters should be on the home row for efficiency. That's why Qwerty has semicolon on the home row.)
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