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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#261

Post by Ozzie_osman »

tomc1985 wrote: post #199
indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

> The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company.

That's unfortunately not how markets work. If you create 10M of value every year, and are only paid 250K for doing it, it's because there is someone else out there who is willing to do it for the same. (Yes, there are asymmetries in information and power, but broadly, tech salaries are market-driven)

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#262

Post by jchanimal »

jen20 wrote: post #224
tomc1985 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

What? Internal developer productivity tooling is one of the most important investments a company can make, especially at the scale phase. B tier companies give that work to juniors. A tier companies give that work to the most senior people they can find to do it.

Here here. I’m not a 10x developer but I run in those circles, and the best of the best are working to reduce friction for the rest of the team.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#263

Post by dschndstr »

throwawayo wrote: post #140
tjansen wrote: post #10

It also makes us Europeans feel underpaid :) I have 20 years of experience and don't even make six figures. $350000 base pay sounds like a different world.

Our CEO makes 120.000 € a year. Revenue about 2.000.000 € There are employees that make more than him, but no one is close to 200.000 €. Personal is our biggest expense. I earn a decent living and can afford a house and two kids and a stay at home wife in Central Europe with 74.000 € (Project Manager / DevOp / Admin). Cost of living must be insanely high in the U.S. For me, these numbers are so high - I can't imagen…

There are tax reasons for lowish CEO pay. You get income just up to the highest tax bracket (~120000 eur for married single income in Germany) and funnel the rest through dividends into a holding entity.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#264

Post by chasd00 »

fnimick wrote: post #250
rainboOow9 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What baffles me though is that its not like this crazy interview gauntlet is being maintained purely by HR. Engineers in those big tech companies are very protective towards those processes as well, and loudly protest if one would try to change them (complaining about lowering the bar, not hiring top tier talent anymore, etc.). And tbh, I would be afraid of what they would replace those LC interviews with. At least,…

Amusingly, I have gotten exactly that question - or rather, "what's in an inode." I answered "data about a file object, but none of the actual contents of the file, which are stored elsewhere" and failed because I didn't mention the magic words "metadata" and "permissions". Fair, I guess, but this wasn't for a systems development position at all, so I can't imagine it would have been critical to the job! Another favo…

> where I got marked as getting it wrong for skipping explicit description of SYN/ACK step of the TCP connection

that's pretty crazy because if you're going to talk about that then you're going to have to talk about congestion control, windowing, every other protocol besides IP that TCP can run on top of and how they work, and all the other things that come into play based on the current state of the various networks between you and the server hosting the website. Answering that one question could take an hour itself. It reminds me of that saying that goes like "How to make an Apple Pie. Step 1, create the universe..."

I'm very fortunate because my last three interviews have been basically calling up an old colleague and asking what they've been up to and if they want some help.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#265

Post by formerkrogemp »

tomc1985 wrote: post #199
indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

> Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them.

This is true of every industry going on decades of increasing productivity and stagnating pay. What's new here besides greater awareness and labor churn? Will there be an actual change going forward? Of course the demographics favor workers now, but the laws and politics often don't. Immigration and outsourcing and automation can change that power dynamic very quickly. What're you going to do? Form a union? Start a company? Vote? Quit and work elsewhere? Interesting times we live in.

> Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual impact.

All of my friends and aquaintinces in nursing, tax, retail, and trucking have a few people who are trying to break into programming because of the benefits and pay. Outsourcing, scope creep, and automation exist and are expanding in my industry as well. How long until this drags down programmers as well?

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#266

Post by psyc »

dolni wrote: post #217
tomc1985 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

> Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Why the knock on internal tooling? If internal tooling helps a value-add position go 10% faster, that's worth a lot. And most likely it isn't just one position, it's many.

They didn't say internal doesn't add any value at all. They said it's more obviously justifiable with the product people, and it is. Given that total salaries paid per year is almost always small in proportion to revenue at a successful company, tooling cannot add anywhere near as much to the bottom line, even at the extreme where it reduced time to market to 5 seconds.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#267

Post by broast »

giantg2 wrote: post #182
rocketbop wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The I have heard this point made a couple of times recently. Is there any reason why these two values should be the same? It is a point of concern for those on very low incomes who spent all their income and are not able to save anythiny, but if you are on a six figure income and only a portion of that inc…

"Is there any reason why these two values should be the same?" Are you producing the same value for the company as you did last year? If inflation is higher, then you are receiving less value via your pay from producing the same or more value for the company.

But a company will not usually downward adjust your salary during years of deflation. I think there is some risk management involved.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#268

Post by albertgoeswoof »

technovader wrote: post #248
nicksiscoe wrote: post #197

complains about six-figure pay while sitting at home at computer eating a snack while waiting for someone to review their pull request

and then goes out to buy groceries for family that cost 50% more than a year ago. and then has to fill up on gas but decides to just walk

if cheap gas is the reason you're driving instead of walking, gas is too cheap

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#269

Post by tomc1985 »

formerkrogemp wrote: post #265
tomc1985 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual i…

> Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them. This is true of every industry going on decades of increasing productivity and stagnating pay. What's new here besides greater awareness and labor churn? Will there be an actual change going forward? Of course the demographics favor workers now, but the laws and politics often don't. Immigration and outsourcing…

> What're you going to do? Form a union? Start a company? Vote? Quit and work elsewhere?

Quit and work for myself. Personally I'm sick of the capped upside with working in tech (among myriad other issues) and the kinda shit you have to pull to raise it.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#270

Post by dcolkitt »

michaelchisari wrote: post #2

A solid article, but it should have commented on single family home prices. If you use the 3x salary rule, a $120k a year techie couldn't afford the median home price in America ($374k). A software engineer in San Francisco would have to make $526k a year in cold hard cash to reasonably afford the median single family home ($1.58 million). Talking about six figure salaries as if they are unquestionably upper-middle c…

Why would a single person need to buy a 3 bedroom home (the median American home size)? A household with two $120k earners can very comfortably afford a $1 million home at current mortgage rates.
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