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Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

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Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#191

Post by nicoburns »

emteycz wrote: post #108
Melting_Harps wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be clear, I do quite a bit better than that... I'm not complaining. But using 120k as an example...a person went from making 4x the typical full time salary to 2x the typical full time salary in a very short period. This is what I will never understand about most established tech people, they see all the widespread misery and poverty in SV and they still have the capacity to feel sorry for themselves for not mak…

> This is what I will never understand about most established tech people, they see all the widespread misery and poverty in SV and they still have the capacity to feel sorry for themselves for not making X times more than 'that other guy. I don't understand this opinion. Why are the two feelings in conflict? I can be concerned for the people around me AND be concerned that I'm making less than X times more than the…

> Why are the two feelings in conflict? I can be concerned for the people around me AND be concerned that I'm making less than X times more than the average.

Because as a tech worker your salary is likely already well above the level that it would need to fall in order for us to achieve meaningful level of wealth equality (not complete equality, but equal-ish)

> making everyone an equal millionaire will never work

Yes, exactly. But could work is having a scale of something like lower middle class to upper middle class incomes and getting rid of millionaires entirely (or making them as rare as billionaires are today). If we want to bring people out of poverty that money has to come from somewhere, and if you're making 6 figures some of it probably needs to come from you.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#192

Post by gedy »

Glyptodon wrote: post #53
newobj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3x? That's crazy. I bought a $375k house on an $85k tech salary 20 years ago.

Funny enough my first and only house was actually very close to 3x income at the time I bought it 10ish years ago and everything real estate seems crazy to me now...

Same here (California as well)

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#193

Post by trgn »

astrange wrote: post #160
lotsofpulp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming your goal is to have a car, your budget should always be accounting for the time when you will need to buy a new car since cars do not last forever. Same with land. If your goal is to purchase lands, then your budget needs account for increases in the prices of land (specifically the land you want). And healthcare. And education. Also, my food purchases have definitely increased at least 10% nominally in the…

The inflation number is specifically high because used cars got expensive due to the chip production supply crunch, it’s not those other things. (Except insofar as those other people want to buy used cars, which some of them do.) You’re reading as if it applied to the entire economy just because you’ve been given a single number. My rent hasn’t gone up either. Which is kind of weird since I don’t think we have rent c…

You make the best point on this thread I think. Inflation numbers don't really correspond easily to quality of life or day2day expenses, especially if you're making well above what's required to afford the necessities.

Getting a 4% raise on 150k salary in an uneven 8% inflation environment is a genuine meaningful increase, and will have you "keep up" fine in the short/mid term.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#194

Post by giaour »

eru wrote: post #161
dismantlethesun wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but can management unionize and get protection? They’re clearly a different class of employee.

So management is employees with worse legal options?.. (A quick search seems to say that managers can't join most unions, but there might be some they can join. There seems to be no legal barrier, but rather that existing unions don't want them, and that managers seldom ask to join.)

There are some unions that allow supervisory employees to join, like AFSMCE (the largest public sector union in the US).

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#195

Post by nicoburns »

nradov wrote: post #184
inertiatic wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And if one thing that COVID has taught us is how incredibly unnecessary you are to maintaining civilization I don't think you understand how the world dealt with COVID. Governments needed software fast to deal with things like tracking the spread of the virus, ensuring people observe protocols (like in my country Greece where you had to go online or send a text to make sure that you're allowed to be outside during t…

It's horrifying that any software developer would participate in a scheme that required people to get permission to go outside. That was a fundamental violation of human rights that can't possibly be justified for any public health reasons. Developers need a better sense of ethics, and the courage to refuse such projects.

Do you also consider prisons a fundamental violation of human rights?

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#196

Post by emteycz »

nicoburns wrote: post #191
emteycz wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is what I will never understand about most established tech people, they see all the widespread misery and poverty in SV and they still have the capacity to feel sorry for themselves for not making X times more than 'that other guy. I don't understand this opinion. Why are the two feelings in conflict? I can be concerned for the people around me AND be concerned that I'm making less than X times more than the…

> Why are the two feelings in conflict? I can be concerned for the people around me AND be concerned that I'm making less than X times more than the average. Because as a tech worker your salary is likely already well above the level that it would need to fall in order for us to achieve meaningful level of wealth equality (not complete equality, but equal-ish) > making everyone an equal millionaire will never work Ye…

> Because as a tech worker your salary is likely already well above the level that it would need to fall in order for us to achieve meaningful level of wealth equality (not complete equality, but equal-ish)

Why would you want that??? I think it's awesome the common Joe can learn programming on the internet and earn huge bucks. Why cancel that of all things?

And then, I don't think your suggestion for equality would work. If my work was significantly taxed above $100K, I'd stop earning more at that point because work is very stressful to me and I'm not going to do it if I don't get the benefit of it; and I'd most definitely not go into any sort of risk (like starting a startup) in that world.

If I can't even bang on a keyboard without someone feeling entitled to get the majority of my product, well then I'm not doing it, sorry. Everybody would lose - I'd pay much less taxes overall, and innovation from my side would grind to halt.

(now I earn slightly less than $100k, but also live and work in Europe).

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#198

Post by gedy »

throwawayo wrote: post #140
tjansen wrote: post #10

It also makes us Europeans feel underpaid :) I have 20 years of experience and don't even make six figures. $350000 base pay sounds like a different world.

Our CEO makes 120.000 € a year. Revenue about 2.000.000 € There are employees that make more than him, but no one is close to 200.000 €. Personal is our biggest expense. I earn a decent living and can afford a house and two kids and a stay at home wife in Central Europe with 74.000 € (Project Manager / DevOp / Admin). Cost of living must be insanely high in the U.S. For me, these numbers are so high - I can't imagen…

> Mostly housing and trying to self fund retirement for 20-30 years.

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#199

Post by tomc1985 »

indecisive_user wrote: post #5

>the average tech worker’s salary [will] reach $104,566 in the U.S. — a 6.9% increase since 2020, the report found. But inflation is over 11% since 2020. This isn't an increase. The average tech worker is making less than they were 2 years ago according to the Dice salary report. Why do tech workers feel underpaid? Many companies posted record growth and profits over the pandemic, but still give out paltry 3-5% raise…

The money we make pales in comparison with the size of our contributions to the company. Especially so if you are in a value-adding position and not something like internal tooling. Management and executives are DEFINITELY underpaying us relative to what we bring to the table for them.

Maybe that is one of the reason headcounts have ballooned and complexity has increased so much -- an attempt to minimize individual impact.

(edit- NOT knocking internal tooling, it's just that it is traditionally considered a cost center)

Re: Tech Salaries in 2022: Why the Six Figure Pay Makes Techies Feel Underpaid

#200

Post by lacksconfidence »

Thorrez wrote: post #47
xcambar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a rule of thumb that your total debt should not exceed 1/3 of your income. It has no economic foundations whatsoever. Yet, banking institutions use(d?) this rule to reject whatever application they were not comfortable with.

I think you mean 3x of your income, not 1/3 of your income. If it was 1/3, then someone making 100k would only be able to get a mortgage loan of 33k... Or are you saying payments on debt (mortgage payments)?

When I've heard this before it was about mortgage payments. The general idea being the money you make is broken up into thirds with the gov getting a third in taxes, the mortgage payment getting a third, and living/saving from the final third.
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