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Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

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Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#441

Post by kolbe »

scarface74 wrote: post #435
kolbe wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That term gets used way too often and way too loosely. At some level, everything is a Ponzi Scheme. I think "pump and dump" is more accurately descriptive. And you never know: YC suppressing bad press on HN and promoting good press could be considered market manipulation.

Everything isn’t a Ponzi scheme though. The current well known profitable tech companies were all profitable before they IPOd except for Amazon and Netflix(?). Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Intel, Nvidia, etc. Have there been any successful sustainably profitable tech companies to go public since Facebook?

$FB was barely profitable, IPOing with a 400 P/E. And they had losses in two consecutive quarters a year after the IPO[1].

AMZN wasn't profitable for 7 years, then fell to unprofitable again in 2012 and 2014[2].

AAPL was net in the red from 1996 to 2003[3].

So, were all these companies "Ponzi schemes" during the eras where they were investing in growth?

And if your only qualification is to "be profitable" for something not to be a Ponzi, then why are you here ragging on places like Coinbase? Coinbase is a 5.7 P/E company with $4b in net cash right now.

[1] https://www.fintopea.com/quote/FB/income-statement

[2] https://www.fintopea.com/quote/AMZN/income-statement

[3] https://www.fintopea.com/quote/AMZN/income-statement

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#442

Post by gorgoiler »

nradov wrote: post #440
gorgoiler wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s different. You are talking about doing a deal with the player. I’m talking about Company X having to pay off Cloudflare-the-business if they want Team Cloudflare’s top network engineer to transfer to Team Company X, mid contract.

That only really works in professional sports because each team is part of a league which enforces operating rules, including rules about player contracts and trades. No such "league" exists in the tech industry, and any attempt to form one would likely be a criminal violation of antitrust laws.

Gosh. Are sports stars really so different as employees? I suppose they get paid so much specifically to endure such odd employment circumstances.

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#443

Post by stjohnswarts »

mmaunder wrote: post #47
ferdowsi wrote: post #11

Cloudflare is down 71% in that same period. Zoom is down 60%. Speculative pandemic tech darlings are no longer darlings and are being hammered across the board. It's going to be a rough time for anyone who had high hopes for their equity compensation.

P/E is back. Funny how irrational exuberance is seen as a normal market and a return to fundamentals is a financial crisis.

If you look at P/E then the current "collapse" isn't nearly as worrisome and realize it's just the inevitable result of market self correction vs human emotion, market Always wins. I personally believe the massacre will be over in a couple or three weeks.

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#444

Post by stjohnswarts »

adfjalkfja wrote: post #77
ferdowsi wrote: post #11

Cloudflare is down 71% in that same period. Zoom is down 60%. Speculative pandemic tech darlings are no longer darlings and are being hammered across the board. It's going to be a rough time for anyone who had high hopes for their equity compensation.

Guess I'll buy some cloudflare along with hashicorp

lol yeah cloudflare and AWS ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#445

Post by snowcorn »

jollybean wrote: post #193
snowcorn wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate further on this? I originally read your response as meaning something bad specifically based on the OP stating that they are Russian, and I am hoping that isn't actually the case.

Blockchain and Crypto are fairly useless in areas with reliable currency. The Ruble is a garbage currency and so, it's entirely feasible that the stated advantages/benefits of something like BTC really do add up in a place like Russia. But I'm not sure BTC is the solution, or that there are really any solutions as of yet. As for 'meaning something bad' and not being sure about it, why would you even respond? It's jus…

Ah, interesting! I usually only hear about crypto/blockchain in a negative context (new XYZ-coins that are pre-mined, environmental impact, plugged into games for new microtransactions, etc), so it's interesting to hear about a potentially legitimate use case.

To be bluntly honest, I responded because I thought you might be advocating for violence against someone entirely based on their nationality |OR| that I completely misunderstood what your comment was about (which I definitely did here; sorry for interpreting your message the wrong way).

Even with it just being a discussion board, I would really regret not at least leaving a comment asking for clarification. I'm glad I did in this case, as I turned out to be completely wrong :)

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#446

Post by hackerfromthefu »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #223
jollofricepeas wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Netflix’s only option at this point is to merge with a large IP holder meaning Paramount (formerly ViacomCBS). Netflix was not as aggressive as they needed to be in locking down must-see brands to 1) keep subscribers or 2) better negotiate with the content players.

Well it turns out a lot of the big players own huge swaths of IP and ramping up a streaming service is a lot less hard. Netflix tried to build a moat with it's own movies, but I guess so did the Hallmark channel

Netflix also tried to be more PC than PC and drove a lot of mainstream viewers away. Perhaps they thought being over the top in culture wars would be their moat? Or perhaps they were just drinking koolaid?

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#447

Post by scarface74 »

kolbe wrote: post #441
scarface74 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything isn’t a Ponzi scheme though. The current well known profitable tech companies were all profitable before they IPOd except for Amazon and Netflix(?). Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Intel, Nvidia, etc. Have there been any successful sustainably profitable tech companies to go public since Facebook?

$FB was barely profitable, IPOing with a 400 P/E. And they had losses in two consecutive quarters a year after the IPO[1]. AMZN wasn't profitable for 7 years, then fell to unprofitable again in 2012 and 2014[2]. AAPL was net in the red from 1996 to 2003[3]. So, were all these companies "Ponzi schemes" during the eras where they were investing in growth? And if your only qualification is to "be profitable" for somethi…

Apple went public in 1980 and Facebook was at least profitable.

Everyone though that Amazon would never make a profit. Even today most of Amazon’s profit comes from AWS.

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#448

Post by PolygonSheep »

kumarvvr wrote: post #233
ferdowsi wrote: post #11

Cloudflare is down 71% in that same period. Zoom is down 60%. Speculative pandemic tech darlings are no longer darlings and are being hammered across the board. It's going to be a rough time for anyone who had high hopes for their equity compensation.

Its surprising to see companies like CF being down. Like, they are the foundation on which apps and services are built. They are like the water supply, to the restaurant. Is it a correction to true value or an over-reaction to market sentiment?

Just because a company provides genuinely useful and important products doesn't mean it's not overvalued.

> They are like the water supply, to the restaurant.

Even actual water companies get overvalued. Just look at American Water Works or Essential Utilities Inc stock.

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#449

Post by bb88 »

baskethead wrote: post #388
nostrademons wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really rough valuation heuristic that can lead you very far askew. A P/E of 30 is appropriate for a value stock (steady earnings) at 3% interest rates. (How did I get that figure? P/E of 30 is about a 3% earnings yield, and if earnings are steady the stock is effectively equivalent to a bond at that rate.) For a growth stock, you have to ask yourself "How much growth do I believe is left in this market?" A c…

A PE ratio of 30 for a value stock? You have got to be kidding me. Average PE ratio for the SP500 was about 15 until the pandemic.

Tech stocks should be around 30 right now, due to expected growth. 10/15 is (at least what I consider) the expected for normal stocks.

Re: Coinbase stock lost over 75% value

#450

Post by anm89 »

ike0790 wrote: post #55

i don't see why anyone would want to buy coinbase stock. it's extremely correlated to the broader crypto market with less upside. In a bull market, you could buy bitcoin or maybe be a bit more risky and buy some of the higher tier alt-coins and it would probably give you a 1.00 correlation in bull and bear cycles, but during the bull cycles the coins would skyrocket because they are tied to any major fundamental metr…

The correlation is exactly why I'd buy it. It's an explanation of why people re misvaluing the underlying revenue stream.
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