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Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#121

Post by verisimi »

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

> Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry?

What elected officials? They are appointed.

Its been a technocracy from the start and they are open about this.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/7/how-are-the-com...

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#122

Post by hakre »

denton-scratch wrote: post #55
reedjosh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I just lacking imagination? Yes. The EU is becoming a totalitarian regional government of elites. Originally it wasn't even supposed to have a military presence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_forces_of_the_European... It was supposed to prevent the need of passports. https://www.covidpasscertificate.com/europe-digital-green-pa... All the good things are going out the door and all the bad things are walki…

> The EU is becoming a totalitarian regional government of elites. "Becoming"? That's how it was designed. Well, not "totalitarian", exactly; it was designed to make sure that the member governments stayed tightly in charge. The EU Commission is composed of government appointees from the member governments, and is the most powerful EU institution. EU commissioners don't go rogue (not against the wishes of their own g…

Perhaps not designed, but the rest of the EU has to dance to the waltz - or break/exit.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#124

Post by narag »

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #71
arcticbull wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is especially strange since a supermajority of Americans, across the political spectrum, of both genders, generally agree that some abortions should be permitted [1]. 70% want to keep the status quo. [2] It's even arguably a violation of the religious freedom of Jewish folks to ban abortion [3]. It's not forbidden by the Bible either - the Bible makes it clear that life begins 'at first breath' (Genesis 2:7)…

The stipulation comes at the definition of what life is and what taking life away is. It’s a very difficult thing to define what life is, thus legally it is for lack of a better phrasing “a can of worms.” If you’re programming minded, you may see how such a definition is ambiguous and opens many attack vectors for interpretation. After seeing it this way, I began to understand why it’s so hotly contested.

Best legal definition I've heard involves death. When is a person considered dead? Brain activity ceased irreversibly. In the opposite end you have first brain activity (around three months since fecundation) as the best milestone.

Of course there is philosophical discussion that goes beyond that, but since making it a crime is a legal matter, it's probably within reason.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#125

Post by alwayslikethis »

DocTomoe wrote: post #57
srcreigh wrote: post #45

Here's the uncommon opinion. Google/FB, by extension US government, already performs mass surveillance. There are actually 2 solutions to this problem. One is stopping Google/FB. The other is making mass surveillance more common, lessening the impact of mass surveillance. In that sense non-US govs taking mass surveillance is a boon to power balances and competition amongst nations and economies. Does this opinion hav…

Neither Google nor Facebook has built concentration camps in the past. The same can not be said about state actors. Thus, private companies, especially those in some other country, are inherently more trustworthy than a local government body could ever be.

Yeah. IMO a good strategy is to rely on companies in a non-friendly country. For example, if you are in a Western country, use a Russian company for stuff that you have to outsource to a 3rd party. If you are in Russia or China, use Google and Facebook all you want.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#126

Post by unethical_ban »

denton-scratch wrote: post #37

This looks like a scare-story. Firstly, the EU produces directives and regulations; it doesn't produce "laws". Secondly, the phrase "child pornography" is in quotes, as if there's no such thing. There is such a thing. Thirdly, the imputed "law" requires service providers to scan encrypted messages. That's impossible, unless the proposal is to ban properly-encrypted messages. If that were the proposal, then surely tha…

"child pornography" is in quotes because it is listed as a good faith, legitimate motivation to spy on populations preemptively, when it isn't.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#127

Post by codeguro »

13415 wrote: post #65

How is this law supposed to work with text encryption? Write text, encrypt, copy to clipboard, paste into chat app? Will such encryption applications be prohibited? That seems unenforcable, these apps are everywhere, I've even written one with symmetric encryption myself.

It doesn’t. You cannot legislate math. You cannot change the laws of physics either. These so called “laws” will do absolutely nothing to stop or even deter an committed criminal from so much as sharing child porn. It’s completely unenforceable. Public key encryption is even more powerful than symmetric encryption because it gives everyone the ability to establish a shared secret completely out in the open, effectively securing communications over insecure networks. Complete strangers without ever having to meet in person can send secret messages in a manner they can guarantee no one else can read and no one else could forge.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#128

Post by TheFreim »

Havoc wrote: post #5

Ah the classic "But think of the children" appeal... Anybody know how this will impact proton?

I don't appreciate the way privacy advocates attack the "think of the children" cliche. It comes off as a flippant rejection of the importance of protecting the vulnerable.

The issue isn't the justification, it's that the ends don't justify the means. Sometimes you can't take an action even if you perceive it'll have a good result (spying on people [immoral means] to protect children [moral end]).

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#129

Post by jwilk »

shmde wrote: post #42
woliveirajr wrote: post #22

What's that "%ef%bf%bc" at the end of the link ?

From StackOverflow- These look like corrupted URLs being inserted by a piece of Malware/Adware called "Adpeak"[1] [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25222973/weird-character... .

The submission URL looks nothing like the Adpeak-generated junk.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#130

Post by ultra_nick »

13415 wrote: post #65

How is this law supposed to work with text encryption? Write text, encrypt, copy to clipboard, paste into chat app? Will such encryption applications be prohibited? That seems unenforcable, these apps are everywhere, I've even written one with symmetric encryption myself.

Governments frequently ban encryption for private citizens to "prevent them from sharing child porn".
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