Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

patrick-breyer.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 338 posts

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#11

Post by detritus »

Zhenya wrote: post #2

If EU really wants to curb risk to children: -significantly raise the penalty for sexual child abuse -provide clinics and medications for people with this mental disease However, that’s not really the goal here is it…

> -significantly raise the penalty for sexual child abuse

I'm sure some dark comic (Boyle, Gervais?) made a joke along these lines, but presumably the problem with this tack is that you end up with more dead children?

Biology, consensus-morality-abiding or otherwise, is a hard thing to ignore and little befearing the meagre laws of man in those that suffer from it.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't see 'sterner sentencing' having much truck here, as much as I'd personally mete the death sentence for anyone raping kids or.. well, anyone.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#13

Post by tick_tock_tick »

reedjosh wrote: post #3

Governments are not our friends. Ostensibly they're supposed to be tools to check powerful interests. In reality, the larger the governing body the more they work for the powerful. The EU passes a bunch of token privacy regulations, but then tries to force mass surveillance. It's all a control scheme. Never believe the government are the 'good guys.'

The EU has always believed privacy only applies between private entities.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#14

Post by jimbob45 »

detritus wrote: post #11
Zhenya wrote: post #2

If EU really wants to curb risk to children: -significantly raise the penalty for sexual child abuse -provide clinics and medications for people with this mental disease However, that’s not really the goal here is it…

> -significantly raise the penalty for sexual child abuse I'm sure some dark comic (Boyle, Gervais?) made a joke along these lines, but presumably the problem with this tack is that you end up with more dead children? Biology, consensus-morality-abiding or otherwise, is a hard thing to ignore and little befearing the meagre laws of man in those that suffer from it. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't see 'st…

It was Louis CK.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Fy8zVp63w

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#15

Post by Mikeb85 »

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

> Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry?

Pretty much. While no one supports it, few people see it as something that directly affects them so they don't fight it.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#16

Post by fabatka »

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

I never understand this apparent motive of "elected officials getting power hungry". How would this legislation make the people in the EU Commission more powerful? Am I just lacking imagination?

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#17

Post by reedjosh »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #8
reedjosh wrote: post #3

Governments are not our friends. Ostensibly they're supposed to be tools to check powerful interests. In reality, the larger the governing body the more they work for the powerful. The EU passes a bunch of token privacy regulations, but then tries to force mass surveillance. It's all a control scheme. Never believe the government are the 'good guys.'

Needlessly cynical. Human organizations of all kinds have problems, including governments. If you don't believe that government can ever function in a manner intended by the people it nominally represents, then everything is hopeless, since we (the vast majority of people) were also screwed over without representative government. I don't agree that one needs to conclude this. You can believe in government at the same…

> since we (the vast majority of people) were also screwed over without representative government.

Without government we at least had choice. I think you're needlessly cynical. Humans can organize themselves quite well when they have maximum choice as individuals.

The robber barons of the early nineteenth century were bolstered by governments--not hindered. Governments have always been corrupt.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#18

Post by everyone »

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

I assume some corporations are lobbying for it. So they can harvest more data, and maybe sell the tech that will do this.

In the past some stuff like this has either gotten through of been attempted, and its usually in some trade deal with the US. So apparently the US really wants this all over the world.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#19

Post by freeflight »

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

> I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

Try looking past IT-affine circles, there the mindset of "nothing to hide, my info is not worth anything anyway" is shockingly prevalent. Particularly once the virtue signaling starts along the lines of "People who oppose this, support organized crime, terrorism and child abuse!", once these topics are brought up pretty much everybody has to fall in line, or risk being accused being one of those nasties.

There is also a substantial part of the Zoomer generation that openly, and loudly, demand censorship, to hide those opinions online that don't fit their Overton window. Thanks to a decade of propaganda about disinformation by "social bots", relying on technology that ain't even a thing yet. People literally demanding to be protected from views that make them uncomfortable.

And it's apparently not censorship because private corporations do it, the same corporations that dominate the majority of the online discourse these days. But who cares about details like that, when it's about protecting "democracy, freedom and the children"?

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#20

Post by jaywalk »

fabatka wrote: post #16
joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

I never understand this apparent motive of "elected officials getting power hungry". How would this legislation make the people in the EU Commission more powerful? Am I just lacking imagination?

This legislation means the EC gets to decide what is allowed and what's not in private communications. It always starts with child pornography, because everybody finds it abhorrent. But once you open that door...
Post reply on HN