Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#161

Post by Balgair » Tue, May 10, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

moolcool wrote: post #54

This is what scares me about Metaverse. Initially I was like "Oh good, Facebook is blowing all of their resources on a bad idea everyone hates. I hope this goes badly for them!". Then I realized, the target audience for Metaverse won't have a choice-- it'll be a virtual office where people can work from home while under constant surveillance.

As an aside, I think I finally understand why Mark is so bent out of shape for the metaverse: His security detail.

Last I heard, Mark spends ~$24M/yr. on his security detail. He's got very thick glass installed in his house. 2 foot thick, but I can't confirm that. It's not just bullet proof, it's RPG proof, or something. The optical distortions are quite real through that much silicon and plastic.

I'm not privy to the details on FB internally, but I imagine that the guys you're paying ~$67,000/day will keep you pretty cloistered from threats, either real or potential. Now, combine that with issues like the Dictator's Information Problem.

As such, I'd speculate that Mark doesn't really get to talk with honest people all that much. Mark ain't dumb, he knows it, but he also thinks all the stuff his security team is telling him is real too. A team that doesn't stay employed if the threats disappear.

So, in Mark's mind one solution is to 'air gap' the people from him via the metaverse. He's 'with them' in the same visual spaces, but his security won't be compromised.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#162

Post by nonrandomstring » Tue, May 10, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

peteradio wrote: post #96

nonrandomstring wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latter third of the article is devoted to push-back. Nonetheless, as all writers understand, bias can be subtle [1] Let's start with the title. "Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office" Does that not lend at least tacit assent by ambivalence, if not outright assent? Welcome? The next 750 words are given over to normalising the "lot's of valid reasons" to surveil workers, and lending value to an emerging…

I really enjoyed your theatrics, moist was a nice touch. Do you ever feel like an article can be written for its intentional expected negative backlash? What better way to do that then honestly present the frothy maw right up front for all to be disgusted?

> Do you ever feel like an article can be written for its intentional expected negative backlash? What better way to do that then honestly present the frothy maw right up front for all to be disgusted?

Interesting point Peter. Yes. Indeed, maybe I misjudge the author's sophistication (or how The Economist is playing it). But that tactic opens up great risk of being misinterpreted. At some point one needs to state an intent/position quite clearly.

Someone in an earlier comment mentions sarcasm. I think to do what you're suggesting, at least for an Anglophone reader, would require that you coded your prose as sarcasm. I don't find that easy. While slipping occasionally, I honestly try to refrain from it, not just because it's "the lowest form of wit", or because it risks misunderstanding, but because it carries a "defensive" tone, and I very much prefer to go on the attack in my prose in accordance with Nietzsche's "If it's shaky, push it." Dostoyevsky said it best, that it's a "cry of pain". Sarcasm, he thought, is "usually the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded."

First, how very apt in this context. Second, as with dealing with all bullies, better to walk right up and punch them on the nose. Lastly, despite my sometimes acrid tone, I'm really an optimist about fellow humans. Best to give people the benefit of the doubt to see things as they are.

Respects.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#163

Post by nonrandomstring » Tue, May 10, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #132

nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

You strike me as someone who is at least right on the cusp of breaking through to understand what is really going on, however, if not, I encourage you to reconsider the assumptions and motivations of all the labels and affiliations of organizations and people and social strata you were likely also “taught” about all your life, mostly through “history”. It is an odd thing that many, if not most humans assume good fait…

I hear ya Frank, but I'm a hopeless optimist and an old dog. It's probably too late for me. :)

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#164

Post by marcosdumay » Tue, May 10, 2022, 3:45 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in an office setting. Why especially then?

>Why especially then? Because some office workers think they are special in regards to their output being more creative and cognitive rather than physical and therefore should not be measured in the same fashion as the number of widgets per hour made by a factory worker or tiles per hour laid by a handyman for example, even though ironically, modern SW tools like Jira and processes like Agile & Scrum attempt to do ju…

Hum... The only thing the tools do is documenting what is done and what needs to be done. All the commoditization of laborers is done by people.

And yeah, commoditization of factory workers is a large problem too, and the commoditization of the skilled professions (WTF, a real oxymoron) is a "what the hell are you even thinking?" situation.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#165

Post by blueflow » Tue, May 10, 2022, 3:52 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #114

pmoriarty wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that violence gets attention and sometimes conciliatory action like nothing else. Riots and terrorism generate world headlines, while peaceful picketing rarely gets anywhere near the attention (unless it's also met by violence, as the nonviolent demonstrations and sit-ins were during the Civil Rights struggles in the 60's). I am a pacifist myself, and am completely against violence, but I can see why s…

> The problem is that violence gets attention and sometimes conciliatory action like nothing else. The thing is, the government itself is violent at its core: - cops beating up peaceful protesters or executing people on the streets - cops evicting people from their homes because they can't keep up with rent - cops arresting women because of miscarriages (over 1.200 in 15 years per [1]!) and soon because they dared to…

Burning down property of the working people is not gonna make you friends, you know. If you are being violent and made up some excuses for it, at least direct it towards your enemy.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#166

Post by maigret » Tue, May 10, 2022, 5:40 PM UTC

SethMurphy wrote: post #8

Don't forget the home. With the ubiquity of security cameras privacy is eroding even in private. I am struggling now with properly placing cameras in an apartment and balancing safety, security, and privacy in a family environment.

Some cameras can be physically shut with a lid. It’s a feature especially found at German providers like Bosh.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#167

Post by nonrandomstring » Tue, May 10, 2022, 6:10 PM UTC

dipsplacemat wrote: post #53

bojangleslover wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dark satanic mills"

It's from a hymn describing the environmental destruction of the industrial revolution: And did those feet in ancient time \ Walk upon England’s mountains green? \ And was the holy Lamb of God \ On England’s pleasant pastures seen? And did the Countenance Divine \ Shine forth upon our clouded hills? \ And was Jerusalem builded here \ Among these dark Satanic mills? Bring me my bow of burning gold: \ Bring me my arrow…

As I understood it Blake's Jerusalem didn't literally anticipate the inhumanity of the northern mills (child labour etc - which the phrase has since come to signify), but the orthodoxy of church, schools, law, and halls of Apollonian indoctrination which he saw as obstacles to a more fully human reality. He was, to use a term from Christopher Hitchens, an anti-theist in the fullest sense, against all theisms including those we would recognise today as "technological orthodoxies". While also arguably the worlds first multi-media artist, he eschewed the paper 'tygers' as Promethean follies. Rather prescient I would say.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#168

Post by lupire » Tue, May 10, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #30

coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feels like every damn thing that happens gets used as a pretext to enable more and more surveillance. If bosses could have slaves working for them, a vast majority of them would use slaves in an instant, without thinking about it. At best, they'd use a contractor or two removed from them, to mitigate the ethical accusations (same way they justify the use of sweatshops, child labor in mines, violently threatening an…

^This a thousand times over. The workers' benefits we enjoy today in Europe like 8 hour workdays, minimum 20 days vacation, paid sick leave, free healthcare, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc. were due to the communist movements sweeping Europe after WW2 which governments and industrialists fought hard to suppress so they had to give concessions to the workers in order to keep their business afloat and prevent the…

It's little weird to slip tight-immigrarion into your communist manifesto. Immigration is only a problem when workers are forced to compete for livelihood. Immigrants crrate demand which creates more work opportunity.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#169

Post by juve1996 » Tue, May 10, 2022, 7:18 PM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #71

raxxorraxor wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> efficiency encouragers That is quite the title. Imagine if they would just work and you actually had someone to help you. A whole new universe of productivity.

I genuinely shiver when I read language like this despite being very much a corporate child. I count my blessings that, at least until now, even when I was tracked, my boss either cared about results or 'metrics' were good enough or the boss liked me. I am not entirely certain how to prepare a child for this world. Short of running your own company, it will be hard to avoid the beast.

We're used to a comfortable and secure world.

The fact is the world is not by default this way. Sometimes people have to fight, and die, for rights.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#170

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Tue, May 10, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

lupire wrote: post #168

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^This a thousand times over. The workers' benefits we enjoy today in Europe like 8 hour workdays, minimum 20 days vacation, paid sick leave, free healthcare, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc. were due to the communist movements sweeping Europe after WW2 which governments and industrialists fought hard to suppress so they had to give concessions to the workers in order to keep their business afloat and prevent the…

It's little weird to slip tight-immigrarion into your communist manifesto. Immigration is only a problem when workers are forced to compete for livelihood. Immigrants crrate demand which creates more work opportunity.

Except you are competing for livelihood. The supply of real estate, doctors, schools, teachers, jobs, is very inelastic, all of which is needed for the newly arrived.