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We need a middle class for startups

neilthanedar.com

21–30 of 320 posts

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#21
post #3

Am I the only one not interested in taking advice from someone who has largely been massively successful? I always feel like these are the people who generally have nothing of real value to say, they just think they do because of their bias from their success.

I'm not 100% sure I agree, but I do think that people who have hit wild levels of success generally don't have advice that tangibly applies to most people.

Ironically, I'm going to mention Alex Hormozi (who is very successful), but he said in an interview once that he spent something like $150k to talk to Grant Cardone and thought "I'm easily getting my ROI on that now because Grant's advice applies to someone in my position, where I have $100 MM. 10 years ago, when I was broke, the advice he's giving me now would have just put me further in insurmountable debt."

Most ultra-successful people somewhat forget the baseline that most people live in. For example, if they were to "restart with nothing", they usually assume that "nothing" still implies a good credit score, housing, food, healthcare, etc. which most of America is really spending all of their time trying to fight to secure. This translates to the out-of-touch and generally vague advice they give.

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#22
post #8

I feel like this is just trying to rebrand “lifestyle businesses” or small businesses in general. Where I grew up it wasn’t uncommon for people to have businesses that did a few million in sales and the whole family worked at. While not as sexy as getting angel investment, it sustained a quality of life that met their needs. In order to run a successful business you don’t NEED mass profits or VC dollars.

Local banks can provide the capital, often collateralized by your house. Also small business loans from the government and accelerator awards can provide 6 figure amounts. I know some "generic" business people who are fairly wealthy and they own things like food franchises and apartment complexes. There are many paths to becoming rich that don't involve VCs and billion dollar exits. 99% of entrepreneurs don't talk to…

at the risk of stating the obvious, our labor is only so expensive because of that VC money, and the money-printing machines they've funded

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#23
I don't think it's an issue of making middle-sized businesses "cool", I think it's an issue of capital, right?

The reason "VC" or "bootstrapped from zero" (both are the author's words) are seen as the two available paths is... because they are seen as the two available paths.

Where do you get the funding to do a "middle-sized" business? The OP goes into this a little bit, but it seems to me that's the thing at the center of the whole discussion.

If people saw that it was feasible to find funding for a business that could grow faster and/or with less personal risk than what he is calling "bootstrapped from zero" (or is sometimes pejoratively called a "lifestyle business"); but without giving up the control that you do with VC funding -- of course people would be interested in starting a business like that, the appeal is obvious, right? It doesn't need to be made "cool". But, how? OP suggests "New non-dilutive funding sources are now available for revenue-generating businesses", okay, more on this, and hopefully it doesn't sound like a pyramid scheme or scamming retail "investors".

The things OP links to sound like... loans? OK... So this is just a variation of "bootstrapped from zero" where instead of just taking out credit card debt and loans from family and maybe a line of credit at your bank, you access loan products intended for new businesses? Are they secured by personal property? This doesn't sound so different from "bootstrapped from zero" to me, like these new sources of debt are going to make an entirely different business plan and category of business possible?

Then he moves on to advising that investors fund these businesses... in ways different than VC? Which would mean... without taking significant equity? Or without trying to maximize their payout? They're going to invest just planning on making money from dividends instead? And investors are going to do this because... it's been made "cool"?

I would love there to be more stable medium-sized sustainable businesses that don't pursue growth at all costs, treat their employees well, treat their communities well, etc. I feel like the OP weirdly seems to think the reason they aren't is becuase it's not "cool", rather than because of the economic factors. Businesses need capital, those with capital want to maximize their profit. So the two paths are either try for a capital-intensive startup that tries to give VC what they want; or you try to minimize the amount of capital you need by finding a way to start very small and have very slow but sustainable growth (the "bootstrapped from zero" "lifestyle business"). Making it "cool" to do something else does not solve these economic constraints. What might is talking about, say, changing the tax code to encourage a new type of business model or investment, or providing government subsidy for it, or something. Am I missing something?

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#24
post #3

Am I the only one not interested in taking advice from someone who has largely been massively successful? I always feel like these are the people who generally have nothing of real value to say, they just think they do because of their bias from their success.

I think I actually learned this lesson from my failure to build a billion dollar startup with Labdoor (this story is in the post). We would've been better off raising less money and going for profitability earlier. Labdoor made it to the middle class the hard way, and I'm trying to help others avoid some of my pain.

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#25

I feel like this is just trying to rebrand “lifestyle businesses” or small businesses in general. Where I grew up it wasn’t uncommon for people to have businesses that did a few million in sales and the whole family worked at. While not as sexy as getting angel investment, it sustained a quality of life that met their needs. In order to run a successful business you don’t NEED mass profits or VC dollars.

I'm trying to split SMB into two categories. Lifestyle small businesses are great too, but I'm really talking about companies with $10M+ revenue potential. You can get top-tier VC returns by building a portfolio of Mittelstand businesses ($10M-$1B in revenue).

> I'm trying to split SMB into two categories.

The fact that SMB is literally two categories (Small and Medium Business) but effectively one category is a great way to capture the frustration here.

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#26
post #16
post #3

Am I the only one not interested in taking advice from someone who has largely been massively successful? I always feel like these are the people who generally have nothing of real value to say, they just think they do because of their bias from their success.

Yes, I feel more useful information would be a story from someone who failed a bunch of times, then finally found success, and what the differentiating factors would be in his particular case.

I agree - usually what I am looking to read about!

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#28
post #3

Am I the only one not interested in taking advice from someone who has largely been massively successful? I always feel like these are the people who generally have nothing of real value to say, they just think they do because of their bias from their success.

I think it's important to take advice from a lot of people. It's up to you how to frame what to do with it or how much you think it applies to your current situation.

I guess my point is I always feel like such advice is really just a bunch of hot air (so little or no substance) and not really advice at all.

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#29
post #3

Am I the only one not interested in taking advice from someone who has largely been massively successful? I always feel like these are the people who generally have nothing of real value to say, they just think they do because of their bias from their success.

If someone has been massively successful, that means they know how to be successful. It must be the case they have something of value to say. How can you make the argument they have nothing of value to say?

Re: We need a middle class for startups

#30
post #8

I feel like this is just trying to rebrand “lifestyle businesses” or small businesses in general. Where I grew up it wasn’t uncommon for people to have businesses that did a few million in sales and the whole family worked at. While not as sexy as getting angel investment, it sustained a quality of life that met their needs. In order to run a successful business you don’t NEED mass profits or VC dollars.

Local banks can provide the capital, often collateralized by your house. Also small business loans from the government and accelerator awards can provide 6 figure amounts. I know some "generic" business people who are fairly wealthy and they own things like food franchises and apartment complexes. There are many paths to becoming rich that don't involve VCs and billion dollar exits. 99% of entrepreneurs don't talk to…

My question is why does everyone with the next CRUD SaaS app think they need to hire the “best people”?

I’ve seen plenty of job openings where companies want “ninja rockstar 10x developers” to write what ends up being something that anyone who knows the latest MVC framework with three years of experience can do competently.

And most “entrepreneurs” who own franchising are barely middle class and “bought a job”. The average fast food franchise, convenient store averages about $70K a year and that’s with the owner working insane hours and putting their family to work as free labor.

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